Accident: buying the write off?

[Derry Argue]

I had a motor accident which has resulted in my Land Rover being
written off. I gather it is being treated as a "knock for
knock".

From the comments of the insurers I get the impression that they
have a contract with a dealer who takes all such vehicles. I am
a bit concerned that I won't be given the usual option to
purchase the written off vehicle which I would like to keep for
spares. I did that on the one occasion I had a similar accident
and was able to buy a cheaper vehicle, then swap engines etc. to
end up with something quite respectable.

What is the usual procedure and do I have any rights in this
matter? I can see nothing in the policy which gives the insurer
the right to insist on retaining the written off vehicle, but
maybe I have missed something?

Derry

[Dave Plowman]

Post by Derry Argue
What is the usual procedure and do I have any rights in this
matter? I can see nothing in the policy which gives the insurer
the right to insist on retaining the written off vehicle, but
maybe I have missed something?

Who owns the vehicle? You or the insurance company? Of course they can
insist on keeping the vehicle as part of the settlement, but you can
equally refuse to let them.

[Mike G]

Post by Derry Argue
I had a motor accident which has resulted in my Land Rover

being

Post by Derry Argue
written off. I gather it is being treated as a "knock for
knock".

Knock for knock, is simply agreements between Ins Co's, that
each will deal with it's own clients claims, rather than claim
off each other. Not all Co's are party to the scheme.

Post by Derry Argue
From the comments of the insurers I get the impression that

they

Post by Derry Argue
have a contract with a dealer who takes all such vehicles. I

am

Post by Derry Argue
a bit concerned that I won't be given the usual option to
purchase the written off vehicle which I would like to keep

for

Post by Derry Argue
spares. I did that on the one occasion I had a similar

accident

Post by Derry Argue
and was able to buy a cheaper vehicle, then swap engines etc.

to

Post by Derry Argue
end up with something quite respectable.
What is the usual procedure and do I have any rights in this
matter? I can see nothing in the policy which gives the

insurer

Post by Derry Argue
the right to insist on retaining the written off vehicle, but
maybe I have missed something?

Your Ins Co may not allow you to keep the car. They may say that
under the terms of your policy, that if they pay out for a
write-off, the car becomes their property, and not entertain the
option of a part pay out, with you keeping the car.
You might have to be very insistant to get them to agree.
At the end of the day though, until you reach an agreement, the
car is still your property.
Mike.

Post by Derry Argue
Derry

[Derry Argue]

Post by Mike G
At the end of the day though, until you reach an agreement,
the car is still your property.
Mike.

Thanks, Mike, my impression too. I suspect we have a situation
here where when something is repeated often enough it becomes
"The Truth".

Interestingly, I found the following on the Claims Management &

Post by Mike G

The fact that many insurers’ proposal forms include a question

about the vehicle’s ‘present value’ undoubtedly causes confusion
for many customers. For most transactions, the question has
little relevance for the underwriting of the policy. So it would
help if firms left this question out, or clearly explained its
limited relevance to the settling of claims.<<

That seems to indicate that the "declared value" put on the
proposal form isn't to be relied upon when reaching a
settlement, i.e. it is not a ceiling figure or even a starting
point for the claim! Tgius is confirmed by the following from
the same source, though "it all depends on the wording of the

Post by Mike G

Most policyholders assume that their insurance policy will

enable them to replace with a similar vehicle a car that has
been stolen or damaged beyond repair. Our approach mirrors this.
We want to see firms making a reasonable assessment of the car’s
‘market value’ – and then paying this amount. The ‘market value’
is the likely cost to the customer of buying a car as near as
possibly identical to the one that has been stolen or damaged
beyond economic repair.<<

The more I dig into this, the more interesting it becomes -- and
the more nonsense is revealed!<G>

Knowledge is power. Thank goodness for the Internet!

Derry

[dojj]

my mate had this just the other week
wrote off his turbo technics sierra
no other vehicles involved, he just had a brake pipe go and the car ended up
in a ditch
he told the insurance company, like you should
he recovered the car himself
the insurance company went and picked up the car
moved it about 100 miles away
then told him he had to accept their offer of £200
he went to pick the car up (it's got a fair few quids worth of bits on it
that would cost you at least a few £k to get) and the guy at the salvage
yard said he'd sell him back his own engine for £1,000
all this and he didn't even MAKE a claim
in the end he's had to fork out almost £800 to get his car back because the
insurance company said they were going to charge him "storage" for keeping
the car for so long
don't know what the deal is at the moment but it just goes to show you, if
you have had the vehicle recovered to your place, then don't let it go till
you get a satisfactory result from the insurance firm

when I wrote off my saph I didn't let it out of my front garden till the
insurance company sent me the cheque (second offer was a grand above what
I'd paid for the car 3 years earlier :) )

the other thing you have to look for in your policy is the fact that the
insurance company won't let you buy the salvage back due to most places now
having to crush or dismantle category write off that's can't be put back on
the road

Post by Derry Argue

Post by Mike G
At the end of the day though, until you reach an agreement,
the car is still your property.
Mike.

Thanks, Mike, my impression too. I suspect we have a situation
here where when something is repeated often enough it becomes
"The Truth".
Interestingly, I found the following on the Claims Management &

Post by Mike G

The fact that many insurers' proposal forms include a question

about the vehicle's 'present value' undoubtedly causes confusion
for many customers. For most transactions, the question has
little relevance for the underwriting of the policy. So it would
help if firms left this question out, or clearly explained its
limited relevance to the settling of claims.<<
That seems to indicate that the "declared value" put on the
proposal form isn't to be relied upon when reaching a
settlement, i.e. it is not a ceiling figure or even a starting
point for the claim! Tgius is confirmed by the following from
the same source, though "it all depends on the wording of the

Post by Mike G

Most policyholders assume that their insurance policy will

enable them to replace with a similar vehicle a car that has
been stolen or damaged beyond repair. Our approach mirrors this.
We want to see firms making a reasonable assessment of the car's
'market value' - and then paying this amount. The 'market value'
is the likely cost to the customer of buying a car as near as
possibly identical to the one that has been stolen or damaged
beyond economic repair.<<
The more I dig into this, the more interesting it becomes -- and
the more nonsense is revealed!<G>
Knowledge is power. Thank goodness for the Internet!
Derry

[Dave Plowman]

my mate had this just the other week wrote off his turbo technics sierra
no other vehicles involved, he just had a brake pipe go and the car
ended up in a ditch he told the insurance company, like you should he
recovered the car himself the insurance company went and picked up the
car moved it about 100 miles away then told him he had to accept their
offer of £200 he went to pick the car up (it's got a fair few quids
worth of bits on it that would cost you at least a few £k to get) and
the guy at the salvage yard said he'd sell him back his own engine for
£1,000 all this and he didn't even MAKE a claim

It's a common scenario - the car is removed (usually from the scene of the
accident) and after negotiating a deal with the insurance company where
you keep the wreck, they slap on a storage charge, and since they always
drag their heels before settling, this can be pretty large.

If you intend keeping the car, *don't* let them take it away, or as soon
as possible arrange for your own storage.

Remember the golden rule with insurance. They're out to get you and your
money in every which way.

[David]

Why did he let the car go if it was in his drive? If someone turned up
and tried to collect my car I know what I would do.

Post by dojj
my mate had this just the other week
wrote off his turbo technics sierra
no other vehicles involved, he just had a brake pipe go and the car ended up
in a ditch
he told the insurance company, like you should
he recovered the car himself
the insurance company went and picked up the car
moved it about 100 miles away
then told him he had to accept their offer of £200
he went to pick the car up (it's got a fair few quids worth of bits on it
that would cost you at least a few £k to get) and the guy at the salvage
yard said he'd sell him back his own engine for £1,000
all this and he didn't even MAKE a claim
in the end he's had to fork out almost £800 to get his car back because the
insurance company said they were going to charge him "storage" for keeping
the car for so long
don't know what the deal is at the moment but it just goes to show you, if
you have had the vehicle recovered to your place, then don't let it go till
you get a satisfactory result from the insurance firm
when I wrote off my saph I didn't let it out of my front garden till the
insurance company sent me the cheque (second offer was a grand above what
I'd paid for the car 3 years earlier :) )
the other thing you have to look for in your policy is the fact that the
insurance company won't let you buy the salvage back due to most places now
having to crush or dismantle category write off that's can't be put back on
the road

Post by Derry Argue

Post by Mike G
At the end of the day though, until you reach an agreement,
the car is still your property.
Mike.

Thanks, Mike, my impression too. I suspect we have a situation
here where when something is repeated often enough it becomes
"The Truth".
Interestingly, I found the following on the Claims Management &

Post by Mike G

The fact that many insurers' proposal forms include a question

about the vehicle's 'present value' undoubtedly causes confusion
for many customers. For most transactions, the question has
little relevance for the underwriting of the policy. So it would
help if firms left this question out, or clearly explained its
limited relevance to the settling of claims.<<
That seems to indicate that the "declared value" put on the
proposal form isn't to be relied upon when reaching a
settlement, i.e. it is not a ceiling figure or even a starting
point for the claim! Tgius is confirmed by the following from
the same source, though "it all depends on the wording of the

Post by Mike G

Most policyholders assume that their insurance policy will

enable them to replace with a similar vehicle a car that has
been stolen or damaged beyond repair. Our approach mirrors this.
We want to see firms making a reasonable assessment of the car's
'market value' - and then paying this amount. The 'market value'
is the likely cost to the customer of buying a car as near as
possibly identical to the one that has been stolen or damaged
beyond economic repair.<<
The more I dig into this, the more interesting it becomes -- and
the more nonsense is revealed!<G>
Knowledge is power. Thank goodness for the Internet!
Derry

[dojj]

it was parked up at an airfield
the insurance company took it away
I still don't know if he's got the money sorted or if he will have to pay
for it

Post by David
Why did he let the car go if it was in his drive? If someone turned up
and tried to collect my car I know what I would do.

Post by dojj
my mate had this just the other week
wrote off his turbo technics sierra
no other vehicles involved, he just had a brake pipe go and the car ended up
in a ditch
he told the insurance company, like you should
he recovered the car himself
the insurance company went and picked up the car
moved it about 100 miles away
then told him he had to accept their offer of £200
he went to pick the car up (it's got a fair few quids worth of bits on it
that would cost you at least a few £k to get) and the guy at the salvage
yard said he'd sell him back his own engine for £1,000
all this and he didn't even MAKE a claim
in the end he's had to fork out almost £800 to get his car back because the
insurance company said they were going to charge him "storage" for keeping
the car for so long
don't know what the deal is at the moment but it just goes to show you, if
you have had the vehicle recovered to your place, then don't let it go till
you get a satisfactory result from the insurance firm
when I wrote off my saph I didn't let it out of my front garden till the
insurance company sent me the cheque (second offer was a grand above what
I'd paid for the car 3 years earlier :) )
the other thing you have to look for in your policy is the fact that the
insurance company won't let you buy the salvage back due to most places now
having to crush or dismantle category write off that's can't be put back on
the road

Post by Derry Argue

Post by Mike G
At the end of the day though, until you reach an agreement,
the car is still your property.
Mike.

Thanks, Mike, my impression too. I suspect we have a situation
here where when something is repeated often enough it becomes
"The Truth".
Interestingly, I found the following on the Claims Management &

Post by Mike G

The fact that many insurers' proposal forms include a question

about the vehicle's 'present value' undoubtedly causes confusion
for many customers. For most transactions, the question has
little relevance for the underwriting of the policy. So it would
help if firms left this question out, or clearly explained its
limited relevance to the settling of claims.<<
That seems to indicate that the "declared value" put on the
proposal form isn't to be relied upon when reaching a
settlement, i.e. it is not a ceiling figure or even a starting
point for the claim! Tgius is confirmed by the following from
the same source, though "it all depends on the wording of the

Post by Mike G

Most policyholders assume that their insurance policy will

enable them to replace with a similar vehicle a car that has
been stolen or damaged beyond repair. Our approach mirrors this.
We want to see firms making a reasonable assessment of the car's
'market value' - and then paying this amount. The 'market value'
is the likely cost to the customer of buying a car as near as
possibly identical to the one that has been stolen or damaged
beyond economic repair.<<
The more I dig into this, the more interesting it becomes -- and
the more nonsense is revealed!<G>
Knowledge is power. Thank goodness for the Internet!
Derry

[Adrian]

Post by dojj
it was parked up at an airfield
the insurance company took it away
I still don't know if he's got the money sorted or if he will have to
pay for it

I think I'd have been very tempted to report it stolen to the plods, and say
that you'd heard it was in storage at the yard.

If he hadn't made a claim, the insurance company had absolutely NO right to
even look at the bloody thing.

[Dave Plowman]

Most policyholders assume that their insurance policy will
enable them to replace with a similar vehicle a car that has
been stolen or damaged beyond repair. Our approach mirrors this.
We want to see firms making a reasonable assessment of the car’s
‘market value’ – and then paying this amount. The ‘market value’
is the likely cost to the customer of buying a car as near as
possibly identical to the one that has been stolen or damaged
beyond economic repair.

You'll certainly not get the retail value of a write off - ie the actual
cost to go and replace it from a dealer - without a fight.

[Mike G]

Post by Derry Argue

Post by Mike G
At the end of the day though, until you reach an agreement,
the car is still your property.
Mike.

Thanks, Mike, my impression too. I suspect we have a situation
here where when something is repeated often enough it becomes
"The Truth".
Interestingly, I found the following on the Claims Management

&

Post by Derry Argue

Post by Mike G

The fact that many insurers' proposal forms include a

question

Post by Derry Argue
about the vehicle's 'present value' undoubtedly causes

confusion

Post by Derry Argue
for many customers. For most transactions, the question has
little relevance for the underwriting of the policy. So it

would

Post by Derry Argue
help if firms left this question out, or clearly explained its
limited relevance to the settling of claims.<<
That seems to indicate that the "declared value" put on the
proposal form isn't to be relied upon when reaching a
settlement, i.e. it is not a ceiling figure or even a starting
point for the claim! Tgius is confirmed by the following from
the same source, though "it all depends on the wording of the

No doubt referring to 'Fixed valuation' policies.
AFAIK these policies are restricted to cars that have a value,
either due to their 'collectability' or rarity, or some other
factor that is not purely dependant upon their age or condition.

Post by Derry Argue

Post by Mike G

Most policyholders assume that their insurance policy will

enable them to replace with a similar vehicle a car that has
been stolen or damaged beyond repair. Our approach mirrors

this.

Post by Derry Argue
We want to see firms making a reasonable assessment of the

car's

Post by Derry Argue
'market value' - and then paying this amount. The 'market

value'

Post by Derry Argue
is the likely cost to the customer of buying a car as near as
possibly identical to the one that has been stolen or damaged
beyond economic repair.

Would probably help to get an estimate of it's 'pre-accident'
value from a reputable dealer, and examples of the retail price
of LR's in a similar pre-accident condition.
At least that gives you some ammunition when they offer you an
absurdly low settlemant figure.
Mike.

[dojj]

Post by Derry Argue

Post by Mike G
At the end of the day though, until you reach an agreement,
the car is still your property.
Mike.

Thanks, Mike, my impression too. I suspect we have a situation
here where when something is repeated often enough it becomes
"The Truth".
Interestingly, I found the following on the Claims Management

&

Post by Derry Argue

Post by Mike G

The fact that many insurers' proposal forms include a

question

Post by Derry Argue
about the vehicle's 'present value' undoubtedly causes

confusion

Post by Derry Argue
for many customers. For most transactions, the question has
little relevance for the underwriting of the policy. So it

would

Post by Derry Argue
help if firms left this question out, or clearly explained its
limited relevance to the settling of claims.<<
That seems to indicate that the "declared value" put on the
proposal form isn't to be relied upon when reaching a
settlement, i.e. it is not a ceiling figure or even a starting
point for the claim! Tgius is confirmed by the following from
the same source, though "it all depends on the wording of the

No doubt referring to 'Fixed valuation' policies.
AFAIK these policies are restricted to cars that have a value,
either due to their 'collectability' or rarity, or some other
factor that is not purely dependant upon their age or condition.

it's an agreed value and you have to get a report fiolled in to say it's
worth that much and then give it to the insuarance comapny, providing they
are going to offer you a policy that has an agreed value as a stipulation

[IanDTurner]

Slightly OT, but I had a real surprise when I had my Cav T boned a few years
ago. I thought it would be touch and go as to whether it was a write off, but
the insurance inspector informed me I had undervalued it, and added another
grand to its relative value, making rapair viable!

Ian

[Peter Hill]

On 31 Oct 2003 22:48:44 GMT, Derry Argue

Post by Derry Argue
I had a motor accident which has resulted in my Land Rover being
written off. I gather it is being treated as a "knock for
knock".
From the comments of the insurers I get the impression that they
have a contract with a dealer who takes all such vehicles. I am
a bit concerned that I won't be given the usual option to
purchase the written off vehicle which I would like to keep for
spares. I did that on the one occasion I had a similar accident
and was able to buy a cheaper vehicle, then swap engines etc. to
end up with something quite respectable.
What is the usual procedure and do I have any rights in this
matter? I can see nothing in the policy which gives the insurer
the right to insist on retaining the written off vehicle, but
maybe I have missed something?
Derry

Don't let it out of your possession, possession is 9 10th's of the law
(ask a squatter). Once you let someone tow it away they can and will
send it wherever the insurance co say. The chances of being able to
get it back from the breakers the insurance co will have sold it to
are nil. If you have kept it then you can phone the insurance co and
ask for salvage - usually not a lot. They send you a cheque less
excess and salvage.

--
Peter Hill
Spamtrap reply domain as per NNTP-Posting-Host in header
Can of worms - what every fisherman wants.
Can of worms - what every PC owner gets!