Left hand wheel nuts??

Post by Cursitor Doom
Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car

Is this your next anti-left wing thread?

;-)

--
Adrian C

Cursitor Doom

2022-03-15 23:25:39 UTC

On Tue, 15 Mar 2022 18:23:51 +0000, Adrian Caspersz

Post by Adrian Caspersz

Post by Cursitor Doom
Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car

Is this your next anti-left wing thread?
;-)

HaHa! Give the gent a coconut! :-D

Hussain Mohyy U Din

2024-09-16 12:15:04 UTC

thanks https://www.motorsforum.com

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For full context, visit https://www.motorsforum.com/maintenance-uk/left-hand-wheel-nuts-2147269-.htm

Tim+

2022-03-15 18:58:33 UTC

Post by Cursitor Doom
Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car
today. Never encountered that before! What on earth is the point?

Helps to stop them loosening.

Post by Cursitor Doom
Anyone else come across this outrage?

Only ever heard of it on lorries. How old/big is the car? Wouldn’t put it
past RR doing it as obviously no owner is going to dirty their hands on the
wheel nuts when they have a man for that sort of thing. ;-)

Tim

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Dave Plowman (News)

2022-03-16 14:42:00 UTC

In article

Post by Tim+

Post by Cursitor Doom
Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car
today. Never encountered that before! What on earth is the point?

Helps to stop them loosening.

Post by Cursitor Doom
Anyone else come across this outrage?

Only ever heard of it on lorries. How old/big is the car? Wouldnt put it
past RR doing it as obviously no owner is going to dirty their hands on the
wheel nuts when they have a man for that sort of thing. ;-)

Rolls/Bentley certainly did on the S series cars up until the 60s. Not
sure about later models.

And if you stripped a thread in a nut, the LH thread ones cost more than
the RH ones. Don't ask how I know.

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Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

newshound

2022-03-15 21:56:43 UTC

Post by Cursitor Doom
Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car
today. Never encountered that before! What on earth is the point?
Anyone else come across this outrage?

What vehicle? Sounds weird to me. Why only the rear?

Knock-on hubs are of course handed. But I was interested to discover
they are not always the same way around: this from a UK sports car forum

"Yes the Elan knock ons are the opposite way around to all other knock ons.
It's all abit complicated to explain the physics of it all.
Basically it's dependent on whether the cone on the spinner fits into or
onto the cone on the wheel.
Splined wire wheel hubs have an external cone.
The Elan steel wheels have an internal cone.
These combinations effectively have an influence over the "self
tightening effect" & are dependent on which side of the car they are
fitted to.
There is a story about Chapman explaining the theory of this by placing
and spinning an egg cup inside a napkin ring to show the influece of
counter rotation to his "lesser engineers"

Dave Plowman (News)

2022-03-16 14:43:49 UTC

Post by Cursitor Doom
Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car
today. Never encountered that before! What on earth is the point?
Anyone else come across this outrage?

What vehicle? Sounds weird to me. Why only the rear?
Knock-on hubs are of course handed. But I was interested to discover
they are not always the same way around: this from a UK sports car forum
"Yes the Elan knock ons are the opposite way around to all other knock ons.
It's all abit complicated to explain the physics of it all.
Basically it's dependent on whether the cone on the spinner fits into or
onto the cone on the wheel.
Splined wire wheel hubs have an external cone.
The Elan steel wheels have an internal cone.
These combinations effectively have an influence over the "self
tightening effect" & are dependent on which side of the car they are
fitted to.
There is a story about Chapman explaining the theory of this by placing
and spinning an egg cup inside a napkin ring to show the influece of
counter rotation to his "lesser engineers"

It is common on a centre lock wheel. But not so much with stud fixing
types.

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Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Cursitor Doom

2022-03-16 16:22:18 UTC

On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 14:43:49 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"

Post by Cursitor Doom
Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car
today. Never encountered that before! What on earth is the point?
Anyone else come across this outrage?

What vehicle? Sounds weird to me. Why only the rear?
Knock-on hubs are of course handed. But I was interested to discover
they are not always the same way around: this from a UK sports car forum
"Yes the Elan knock ons are the opposite way around to all other knock ons.
It's all abit complicated to explain the physics of it all.
Basically it's dependent on whether the cone on the spinner fits into or
onto the cone on the wheel.
Splined wire wheel hubs have an external cone.
The Elan steel wheels have an internal cone.
These combinations effectively have an influence over the "self
tightening effect" & are dependent on which side of the car they are
fitted to.
There is a story about Chapman explaining the theory of this by placing
and spinning an egg cup inside a napkin ring to show the influece of
counter rotation to his "lesser engineers"

It is common on a centre lock wheel. But not so much with stud fixing
types.

That's what I was getting at. I can't see the point unless it's one
single securing fixture on the axis of the drive shaft.

Dave Plowman (News)

2022-03-17 14:30:31 UTC

Post by Cursitor Doom
On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 14:43:49 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"

Post by Cursitor Doom
Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car
today. Never encountered that before! What on earth is the point?
Anyone else come across this outrage?

What vehicle? Sounds weird to me. Why only the rear?
Knock-on hubs are of course handed. But I was interested to discover
they are not always the same way around: this from a UK sports car forum
"Yes the Elan knock ons are the opposite way around to all other knock ons.
It's all abit complicated to explain the physics of it all.
Basically it's dependent on whether the cone on the spinner fits into or
onto the cone on the wheel.
Splined wire wheel hubs have an external cone.
The Elan steel wheels have an internal cone.
These combinations effectively have an influence over the "self
tightening effect" & are dependent on which side of the car they are
fitted to.
There is a story about Chapman explaining the theory of this by placing
and spinning an egg cup inside a napkin ring to show the influece of
counter rotation to his "lesser engineers"

It is common on a centre lock wheel. But not so much with stud fixing
types.

That's what I was getting at. I can't see the point unless it's one
single securing fixture on the axis of the drive shaft.

It could be Rolls originally had centre fix wheels. So when they moved
over to studs, kept the left hand direction to avoid confusing the
chauffeur. They did similar with their first stalk indicators. On the
wrong side due to the column gearchange on their autos. But swapped over
with later models to what was then the norm.

--
*The statement below is true.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

newshound

2022-03-17 21:03:26 UTC

Post by Cursitor Doom
On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 14:43:49 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"

Post by Cursitor Doom
Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car
today. Never encountered that before! What on earth is the point?
Anyone else come across this outrage?

What vehicle? Sounds weird to me. Why only the rear?
Knock-on hubs are of course handed. But I was interested to discover
they are not always the same way around: this from a UK sports car forum
"Yes the Elan knock ons are the opposite way around to all other knock ons.
It's all abit complicated to explain the physics of it all.
Basically it's dependent on whether the cone on the spinner fits into or
onto the cone on the wheel.
Splined wire wheel hubs have an external cone.
The Elan steel wheels have an internal cone.
These combinations effectively have an influence over the "self
tightening effect" & are dependent on which side of the car they are
fitted to.
There is a story about Chapman explaining the theory of this by placing
and spinning an egg cup inside a napkin ring to show the influece of
counter rotation to his "lesser engineers"

It is common on a centre lock wheel. But not so much with stud fixing
types.

That's what I was getting at. I can't see the point unless it's one
single securing fixture on the axis of the drive shaft.

But it was only on the *rear* wheel.

Also, knock-on hubs were AFAIK always asymmetric: you hammered the
square face to knock them off, but the angled one to put them back.

Tim+

2022-03-18 07:34:26 UTC

Post by Cursitor Doom
On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 14:43:49 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"

Post by Cursitor Doom
Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car
today. Never encountered that before! What on earth is the point?
Anyone else come across this outrage?

What vehicle? Sounds weird to me. Why only the rear?
Knock-on hubs are of course handed. But I was interested to discover
they are not always the same way around: this from a UK sports car forum
"Yes the Elan knock ons are the opposite way around to all other knock ons.
It's all abit complicated to explain the physics of it all.
Basically it's dependent on whether the cone on the spinner fits into or
onto the cone on the wheel.
Splined wire wheel hubs have an external cone.
The Elan steel wheels have an internal cone.
These combinations effectively have an influence over the "self
tightening effect" & are dependent on which side of the car they are
fitted to.
There is a story about Chapman explaining the theory of this by placing
and spinning an egg cup inside a napkin ring to show the influece of
counter rotation to his "lesser engineers"

It is common on a centre lock wheel. But not so much with stud fixing
types.

That's what I was getting at. I can't see the point unless it's one
single securing fixture on the axis of the drive shaft.

But it was only on the *rear* wheel.

Um, we don’t know that. Doom never said anything about the N/S front. It
would be crazy just to have it on one rear wheel. Having LH threaded nuts
on the N/S is at least a real thing on some vehicles, usually heavy, older
lorries.

Tim

--
Please don't feed the trolls

Dave Plowman (News)

2022-03-18 15:47:05 UTC

In article

Um, we dont know that. Doom never said anything about the N/S front. It
would be crazy just to have it on one rear wheel. Having LH threaded nuts
on the N/S is at least a real thing on some vehicles, usually heavy, older
lorries.

If it was also used on trucks, perhaps some sense - if at least in theory.

I had an Austin 1800 (Land crab) The driveshafts had splines to the hub,
and secured by a nut. Same thread both sides. The left hand one gave
problems on two occasions.

--
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Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Cursitor Doom

2022-03-18 21:20:30 UTC

Post by Cursitor Doom
On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 14:43:49 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"

Post by Cursitor Doom
Came across wheel studs with L-H threads on the n/s rear of a car
today. Never encountered that before! What on earth is the point?
Anyone else come across this outrage?

What vehicle? Sounds weird to me. Why only the rear?
Knock-on hubs are of course handed. But I was interested to discover
they are not always the same way around: this from a UK sports car forum
"Yes the Elan knock ons are the opposite way around to all other knock ons.
It's all abit complicated to explain the physics of it all.
Basically it's dependent on whether the cone on the spinner fits into or
onto the cone on the wheel.
Splined wire wheel hubs have an external cone.
The Elan steel wheels have an internal cone.
These combinations effectively have an influence over the "self
tightening effect" & are dependent on which side of the car they are
fitted to.
There is a story about Chapman explaining the theory of this by placing
and spinning an egg cup inside a napkin ring to show the influece of
counter rotation to his "lesser engineers"

It is common on a centre lock wheel. But not so much with stud fixing
types.

That's what I was getting at. I can't see the point unless it's one
single securing fixture on the axis of the drive shaft.

But it was only on the *rear* wheel.

I haven't had occasion to remove the front n/s wheel yet, so that may
well be (and presumably is) LH-threaded as well.
One unfortunate aspect of this skulduggery is that my torque wrench
doesn't appear to function the wrong way around, which is a PITA. So I
could only hazard a guess when it came to replacing the nuts. :(

Dave Plowman (News)

2022-03-18 15:40:20 UTC

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
It could be Rolls originally had centre fix wheels. So when they moved
over to studs, kept the left hand direction to avoid confusing the
chauffeur. They did similar with their first stalk indicators. On the
wrong side due to the column gearchange on their autos. But swapped over
with later models to what was then the norm.

But it was only on the *rear* wheel.

I'd guess someone has fitted a non standard rear axle.

Post by newshound
Also, knock-on hubs were AFAIK always asymmetric: you hammered the
square face to knock them off, but the angled one to put them back.

Never seen the type that are a nut?

--
*WHERE DO FOREST RANGERS GO TO "GET AWAY FROM IT ALL?"

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

newshound

2022-03-18 17:32:48 UTC

But it was only on the *rear* wheel.

I'd guess someone has fitted a non standard rear axle.

Post by newshound
Also, knock-on hubs were AFAIK always asymmetric: you hammered the
square face to knock them off, but the angled one to put them back.

Never seen the type that are a nut?

Not on a car, unless you are counting the ones on racing cars. (I have
used flogging spanners on pressure vessel flange nuts).

Abandoned_Trolley

2022-03-18 21:31:51 UTC

Post by newshound
Not on a car, unless you are counting the ones on racing cars. (I have
used flogging spanners on pressure vessel flange nuts).

I believe that some Series 3 E Type Jaguars were fitted with wire wheels
which were secured by a nut which had no "ears" and that some sort of
(possibly octagonal) flogging spanner thingy was used to tighten them.

This might have been a requirement for the US market - but a lot of
later E Types had steel wheels anyway.

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random signature text inserted here

Dave Plowman (News)

2022-03-19 12:01:02 UTC

Post by Abandoned_Trolley

Post by newshound
Not on a car, unless you are counting the ones on racing cars. (I have
used flogging spanners on pressure vessel flange nuts).

I believe that some Series 3 E Type Jaguars were fitted with wire wheels
which were secured by a nut which had no "ears" and that some sort of
(possibly octagonal) flogging spanner thingy was used to tighten them.
This might have been a requirement for the US market - but a lot of
later E Types had steel wheels anyway.

Yes - 'wing' knock offs were illegal in some countries. Not surprising,
really.

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*The statement above is false

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

Dave Plowman (News)

2022-03-18 18:23:22 UTC

But it was only on the *rear* wheel.

I'd guess someone has fitted a non standard rear axle.

Post by newshound
Also, knock-on hubs were AFAIK always asymmetric: you hammered the
square face to knock them off, but the angled one to put them back.

Never seen the type that are a nut?

Not on a car, unless you are counting the ones on racing cars. (I have
used flogging spanners on pressure vessel flange nuts).

They were around at the same time as the more usual 'wing' types. But both
usually had an arrow to indicate undo direction.

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Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
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Peter Hill

2022-03-17 23:57:01 UTC

On 17/03/2022 14:30, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
<snip>

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
chauffeur. They did similar with their first stalk indicators. On the
wrong side due to the column gearchange on their autos. But swapped over
with later models to what was then the norm.

And that's a whole different issue.

So which side do you consider the correct side? My Nissan has it on RHS
and looking in owners manual shows this is for RHD and they make a
different set of stalks for LHD with it on LHS. Mazda and Toyota put it
on LHS, at least for Europe including UK.

My view is it should be RHS in RHD and LHS for LDH. that enables the
driver to indicate while changing gear.

Ian Jackson

2022-03-18 07:55:11 UTC

In message <t10hsb$g23$***@gioia.aioe.org>, Peter Hill <***@yahoo.com>
writes

Post by Peter Hill
<snip>

And that's a whole different issue.
So which side do you consider the correct side? My Nissan has it on RHS
and looking in owners manual shows this is for RHD and they make a
different set of stalks for LHD with it on LHS. Mazda and Toyota put it
on LHS, at least for Europe including UK.
My view is it should be RHS in RHD and LHS for LDH. that enables the
driver to indicate while changing gear.

IIRC, most UK cars had the indicator stalk on the right until the late
70s (enabling drivers to simultaneously change gear with the left hand,
and indicate with the right little finger while still holding the
wheel). After the change (which I presume was in the 'interests of
global standardization'), we soon adapted - but some Japanese were the
last to conform. I recall being pleasantly surprised when I hired a
Toyota Corolla in Ireland, and found it was 'right hand wink'.

--
Ian

Abandoned_Trolley

2022-03-18 21:25:28 UTC

Post by Ian Jackson
IIRC, most UK cars had the indicator stalk on the right until the late
70s (enabling drivers to simultaneously change gear with the left hand,
and indicate with the right little finger while still holding the
wheel). After the change (which I presume was in the 'interests of
global standardization'), we soon adapted - but some Japanese were the
last to conform. I recall being pleasantly surprised when I hired a
Toyota Corolla in Ireland, and found it was 'right hand wink'.

I think the truth is that a fair number of cars sold in this country are
designed and built as LHD, and the RHD variant for the UK is built as an
afterthought.

If you have a look under the bonnet of a lot of Fords you might notice
that the brake servo is mounted on the bulkhead - on the passenger side.

Its possible that the entire steering column assembly on most cars is
designed and built as LHD (including the ignition key / steering lock
assembly) and that little or no thought is given to ergonomics.

Also ... I suspect that this has been going on for quite a while. My
1966 Mk 2 Jaguar has a blanking plate on the passenger side of the
bulkhead, to take the brake and clutch master cylinders - and it looks
to me like the "natural" place for them. But on my RHD model the master
cylinders are fitted tight up against the battery, in such a way that
you need to either remove them or the bonnet in order to get the battery
out.

--
random signature text inserted here

Fredxx

2022-03-19 23:13:53 UTC

Post by Ian Jackson
writes

Post by Peter Hill
<snip>

And that's a whole different issue.
So which side do you consider the correct side? My Nissan has it on
RHS and looking in owners manual shows this is for RHD and they make a
different set of stalks for LHD with it on LHS. Mazda and Toyota put
it on LHS, at least for Europe including UK.
My view is it should be RHS in RHD and LHS for LDH. that enables the
driver to indicate while changing gear.

The Japs drive on the correct side of the road.

I too found it useful to move the indicators with a hand on the gearstick.

Michealj

2024-09-18 13:30:03 UTC