Moss

[Mary Ellis]

I have a moss alarm in my old car and some how it wot let the car start I have no dash lights radio or anything the battery is fine as its on a trickle charger I started the car turned it off locked the car which has central locking but only one door locked I opened the car and noticed the clock not working and tried to start it and nothing anyone got any ideas how to isolate the alarm as I dont use it but need the car to start

[Brian]

Post by Mary Ellis
I have a moss alarm in my old car and some how it wot let the car start I have no dash lights radio or anything the battery is fine as its on a trickle charger I started the car turned it off locked the car which has central locking but only one door locked I opened the car and noticed the clock not working and tried to start it and nothing anyone got any ideas how to isolate the alarm as I dont use it but need the car to start

You need to get hold of a manual for the car- at least the wiring
details- and the alarm. Then see where the person who installed the
alarm 'cut' into the original circuit - while there are standard places,
not everyone uses the same ones.

If you aren't confident, it may be worth getting it to an alarm
installer somehow and asking them to remove it.

[Mary Ellis]

Thanks the car started seconds before now nothing no central locking nothing

Post by Brian

Post by Mary Ellis
I have a moss alarm in my old car and some how it wot let the car start I have no dash lights radio or anything the battery is fine as its on a trickle charger I started the car turned it off locked the car which has central locking but only one door locked I opened the car and noticed the clock not working and tried to start it and nothing anyone got any ideas how to isolate the alarm as I dont use it but need the car to start

You need to get hold of a manual for the car- at least the wiring
details- and the alarm. Then see where the person who installed the
alarm 'cut' into the original circuit - while there are standard places,
not everyone uses the same ones.
If you aren't confident, it may be worth getting it to an alarm
installer somehow and asking them to remove it.
--
https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/forced-labour/

[Tim+]

Post by Mary Ellis
Thanks the car started seconds before now nothing no central locking nothing

No lights on the dash? Most immobilisers stop the engine cranking but the
dash will light up as normal. As I said before, I don’t think the alarm is
to blame.

Tim

Post by Mary Ellis

Post by Brian

Post by Mary Ellis
I have a moss alarm in my old car and some how it wot let the car start
I have no dash lights radio or anything the battery is fine as its on a
trickle charger I started the car turned it off locked the car which
has central locking but only one door locked I opened the car and
noticed the clock not working and tried to start it and nothing anyone
got any ideas how to isolate the alarm as I dont use it but need the car to start

You need to get hold of a manual for the car- at least the wiring
details- and the alarm. Then see where the person who installed the
alarm 'cut' into the original circuit - while there are standard places,
not everyone uses the same ones.
If you aren't confident, it may be worth getting it to an alarm
installer somehow and asking them to remove it.
--
https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/forced-labour/

[Mary Ellis]

why else could cut everything out ?

Post by Mary Ellis
Thanks the car started seconds before now nothing no central locking nothing

No lights on the dash? Most immobilisers stop the engine cranking but the
dash will light up as normal. As I said before, I don’t think the alarm is
to blame.
Tim

Post by Mary Ellis

Post by Brian

Post by Mary Ellis
I have a moss alarm in my old car and some how it wot let the car start
I have no dash lights radio or anything the battery is fine as its on a
trickle charger I started the car turned it off locked the car which
has central locking but only one door locked I opened the car and
noticed the clock not working and tried to start it and nothing anyone
got any ideas how to isolate the alarm as I dont use it but need the car to start

You need to get hold of a manual for the car- at least the wiring
details- and the alarm. Then see where the person who installed the
alarm 'cut' into the original circuit - while there are standard places,
not everyone uses the same ones.
If you aren't confident, it may be worth getting it to an alarm
installer somehow and asking them to remove it.
--
https://www.antislavery.org/slavery-today/forced-labour/

--
Please don't feed the trolls

[Roger Mills]

Post by Mary Ellis
why else could cut everything out ?

A bad contact on either side of the battery. Broken earth strap, perhaps?

[Peter Hill]

Post by Tim+

Post by Mary Ellis
Thanks the car started seconds before now nothing no central locking nothing

No lights on the dash? Most immobilisers stop the engine cranking but the
dash will light up as normal. As I said before, I don’t think the alarm is
to blame.

My Cobra alarm stops the dash warning lights coming on.

They wired alarm into the ignition switch feed circuit instead of the
starter. No accessorys, no "ign" and no crank.

And just in case ... there is a 2nd circit.

[Mary Ellis]

That could be it I got a guy coming to look at it on monday

Post by Peter Hill

Post by Mary Ellis
Thanks the car started seconds before now nothing no central locking nothing

No lights on the dash? Most immobilisers stop the engine cranking but the
dash will light up as normal. As I said before, I don’t think the alarm is
to blame.

My Cobra alarm stops the dash warning lights coming on.
They wired alarm into the ignition switch feed circuit instead of the
starter. No accessorys, no "ign" and no crank.
And just in case ... there is a 2nd circit.

[Tim+]

Post by Peter Hill

Post by Tim+

Post by Mary Ellis
Thanks the car started seconds before now nothing no central locking nothing

No lights on the dash? Most immobilisers stop the engine cranking but the
dash will light up as normal. As I said before, I don’t think the alarm is
to blame.

My Cobra alarm stops the dash warning lights coming on.
They wired alarm into the ignition switch feed circuit instead of the
starter. No accessorys, no "ign" and no crank.

And it killed the central locking too?

Mary, do your courtesy lights work? If literally *everything* is
electrically dead then it’s unlikely to be the alarm.

Tim

[Peter Hill]

Post by Tim+

Post by Peter Hill

Post by Tim+

Post by Mary Ellis
Thanks the car started seconds before now nothing no central locking nothing

No lights on the dash? Most immobilisers stop the engine cranking but the
dash will light up as normal. As I said before, I don’t think the alarm is
to blame.

My Cobra alarm stops the dash warning lights coming on.
They wired alarm into the ignition switch feed circuit instead of the
starter. No accessorys, no "ign" and no crank.

And it killed the central locking too?
Mary, do your courtesy lights work? If literally *everything* is
electrically dead then it’s unlikely to be the alarm.
Tim

Good point.

No. Central locking is not on ignition circuit. Alarm had "full
closure", a motor in drivers door that operates lock and that triggers
the central locking just like using key in drivers door lock.

I say "had" full closure as the window control failed and I had to
remove it. I still haven't bothered to do tests to see if it's the Toad
window closer or the Cobra alarm that failed.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Peter Hill
No. Central locking is not on ignition circuit. Alarm had "full
closure", a motor in drivers door that operates lock and that triggers
the central locking just like using key in drivers door lock.

Is that one of those crude BL systems where the driver's door only
contains a switch? Ie, no lock motor?

[Peter Hill]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Peter Hill
No. Central locking is not on ignition circuit. Alarm had "full
closure", a motor in drivers door that operates lock and that triggers
the central locking just like using key in drivers door lock.

Is that one of those crude BL systems where the driver's door only
contains a switch? Ie, no lock motor?

Crude Nissan from 1988.

You will only find an OEM motor in the drivers door if the car had
remote locking. Remote locking is not central locking.

2002 Mazda 323F if you don't put the key in ignition within a few
seconds it will re-lock the doors. A really good way to get your key and
fob locked in the car.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Peter Hill
Crude Nissan from 1988.
You will only find an OEM motor in the drivers door if the car had
remote locking. Remote locking is not central locking.

The first central locking I saw on any car did all doors and boot. With no
remote. In the 60s.

On my old car, the first version of the CL also did all doors and boot.
Could be operated from either front door, and a switch on the dash. Later
versions were Kiekert, where the controller was in the driver's door and
basically just a switch and timer. I assume cheaper.

Post by Peter Hill
2002 Mazda 323F if you don't put the key in ignition within a few
seconds it will re-lock the doors. A really good way to get your key and
fob locked in the car.

Why would you take the key out of the ignition and leave it in the car?
The auto lock doesn't generally work with the key in the ignition, engine
stopped.

[Adrian Caspersz]

Post by Peter Hill
2002 Mazda 323F if you don't put the key in ignition within a few
seconds it will re-lock the doors. A really good way to get your key and
fob locked in the car.

Skoda do the same, say 10 minutes.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Peter Hill

Post by Tim+

Post by Mary Ellis
Thanks the car started seconds before now nothing no central locking nothing

No lights on the dash? Most immobilisers stop the engine cranking but the
dash will light up as normal. As I said before, I don‘t think the alarm is
to blame.

My Cobra alarm stops the dash warning lights coming on.
They wired alarm into the ignition switch feed circuit instead of the
starter. No accessorys, no "ign" and no crank.
And just in case ... there is a 2nd circit.

I'd say you've been lucky the relay in the alarm was up to handling all
that current.

[Peter Hill]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Peter Hill

Post by Tim+

Post by Mary Ellis
Thanks the car started seconds before now nothing no central locking nothing

No lights on the dash? Most immobilisers stop the engine cranking but the
dash will light up as normal. As I said before, I don‘t think the alarm is
to blame.

My Cobra alarm stops the dash warning lights coming on.
They wired alarm into the ignition switch feed circuit instead of the
starter. No accessorys, no "ign" and no crank.
And just in case ... there is a 2nd circit.

I'd say you've been lucky the relay in the alarm was up to handling all
that current.

Uses external slave relays. Alarm only draws relay coil current.

Did have some bother with a Foxguard system, the installer fitted the
relay with the bottom up. Had a leaky screen or sunroof drain that
filled it with water. Then it didn't work. When it dried out it worked.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Peter Hill

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by Peter Hill

Post by Tim+

Post by Mary Ellis
Thanks the car started seconds before now nothing no central locking nothing

No lights on the dash? Most immobilisers stop the engine cranking but the
dash will light up as normal. As I said before, I dont think the alarm is
to blame.

My Cobra alarm stops the dash warning lights coming on.
They wired alarm into the ignition switch feed circuit instead of the
starter. No accessorys, no "ign" and no crank.
And just in case ... there is a 2nd circit.

I'd say you've been lucky the relay in the alarm was up to handling all
that current.

Uses external slave relays. Alarm only draws relay coil current.

Sounds a real cowboy installer. No ignition lights on switch on screams
alarm, or secret switch somewhere. Far better ways of immobilising it.

Post by Peter Hill
Did have some bother with a Foxguard system, the installer fitted the
relay with the bottom up. Had a leaky screen or sunroof drain that
filled it with water. Then it didn't work. When it dried out it worked.

Par for the course with many such companies. Sadly.

[alan_m]

Post by Tim+

Post by Mary Ellis
Thanks the car started seconds before now nothing no central locking nothing

No lights on the dash? Most immobilisers stop the engine cranking but the
dash will light up as normal. As I said before, I don’t think the alarm is
to blame.

Immobilisers should stop the central locking. My guess is the battery.
I wonder how it was checked to see if it was OK?

[alan_m]

Immobilisers should stop the central locking.  My guess is the battery.
I wonder how it was checked to see if it was OK?

That should be " Immobilisers SHOULDN'T stop the central locking "

[Tim+]

Post by Mary Ellis
I have a moss alarm in my old car and some how it wot let the car start I
have no dash lights radio or anything the battery is fine as its on a
trickle charger I started the car turned it off locked the car which has
central locking but only one door locked I opened the car and noticed the
clock not working and tried to start it and nothing anyone got any ideas
how to isolate the alarm as I dont use it but need the car to start

It’s unlikely that the clock is wired into the alarm system unless it’s
only visible when the ignition is turned on. It may be a simple battery
connection problem.

Tim

[Mary Ellis]

I can't remember if the clock did stay on but but nothing works at all no flashers nothing

Post by Tim+

Post by Mary Ellis
I have a moss alarm in my old car and some how it wot let the car start I
have no dash lights radio or anything the battery is fine as its on a
trickle charger I started the car turned it off locked the car which has
central locking but only one door locked I opened the car and noticed the
clock not working and tried to start it and nothing anyone got any ideas
how to isolate the alarm as I dont use it but need the car to start

It’s unlikely that the clock is wired into the alarm system unless it’s
only visible when the ignition is turned on. It may be a simple battery
connection problem.
Tim
--
Please don't feed the trolls

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by Mary Ellis
I can't remember if the clock did stay on but but nothing works at all no flashers nothing

Very unlikely to be anything to do with the alarm. It may or may not
immobilise the engine, but none stop everything working. That would
require a massive relay to isolate the battery.

My guess is you have a knackered battery, or a very bad connection to it.

[alan_m]

Post by Mary Ellis
I have a moss alarm in my old car and some how it wot let the car start I have no dash lights radio or anything the battery is fine as its on a trickle charger I started the car turned it off locked the car which has central locking but only one door locked I opened the car and noticed the clock not working and tried to start it and nothing anyone got any ideas how to isolate the alarm as I dont use it but need the car to start

Starting a cold car can take a lot out of the battery.

How often was the car used before the problem? A few long drives per
week or perhaps during this pandemic a few very short trips to the
supermarket and then nothing for a relatively long time between.

A trickle charge may only maintain a battery that was fully charged in
the first place.

If the car has only been used intermittently and not driven long enough
to replace the charge taken by each starting cycle then the battery
could be well down on capacity and you latest starting has taken it down
to something like fully discharged. With only a "trickle charge" in
these circumstances it may take a week or more to put enough charge in
the battery to enable it to start again.

What is supplying the trickle charge?

[alan_m]

Post by alan_m

Post by Mary Ellis
I have a moss alarm in my old car and some how it wot let the car
start I have no dash lights radio or anything the battery is fine as
its on a trickle charger I started the car turned it off locked the
car which has central locking but only one door locked I opened the
car and noticed the clock not working and tried to start it and
nothing anyone got any ideas how to isolate the alarm as I dont use it
but need the car to start

Starting a cold car can take a lot out of the battery.
How often was the car used before the problem? A few long drives per
week or perhaps during this pandemic a few very short trips to the
supermarket and then nothing for a relatively long time between.
A trickle charge may only maintain a battery that was fully charged in
the first place.
If the car has only been used intermittently and not driven long enough
to replace the charge taken by each starting cycle then the battery
could be well down on capacity and you latest starting has taken it down
to something like fully discharged. With only a "trickle charge" in
these circumstances it may take a week or more to put enough charge in
the battery to enable it to start again.
What is supplying the trickle charge?

If it is the case that the battery is towards its fully discharged state
it may take 1 to 2 hours with the engine idling to fully charge it again
- maybe 30+ minutes of reasonably fast continuous driving (longer if
power is being taken by lights, heated screens etc.)

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by alan_m
If it is the case that the battery is towards its fully discharged state
it may take 1 to 2 hours with the engine idling to fully charge it again
- maybe 30+ minutes of reasonably fast continuous driving (longer if
power is being taken by lights, heated screens etc.)

A modern alternator never chucks all its possible output into charging the
battery.

Assuming no other load than engine electrics, it makes no difference how
fast the vehicle is going - it will charge the battery at its maximum rate
at just above idle.