Oil Sump Pump

[RJH]

I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some
garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my
car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?

[Abandoned_Trolley]

.... especially as on my
car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine.

but I am assuming that the sump drain plug is at the bottom somewhere ?

anyway ... what happened to "flushing oil" ?

[Abandoned_Trolley]

Post by Abandoned_Trolley

.... especially as on my
car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine.

but I am assuming that the sump drain plug is at the bottom somewhere ?
anyway  ... what happened to "flushing oil" ?

also ... during the course of the last 30 years or so, it seems to me
that a lot of cars are using progressively lower viscosity oils.

When multigrade came along and relieved us of the chore of changing from
summer to winter oil and back again, I think they were mostly 20W50 ?

But now, my Ford, along with a lot of other current models seems quite
happy on 5W40.

I would imagine that (all other things being equal) the lower viscosity
oils would more readily run out of the drain plug ?

[alan_m]

Post by Abandoned_Trolley
But now, my Ford, along with a lot of other current models seems quite
happy on 5W40.

or even 5W20

[RJH]

Post by Abandoned_Trolley

.... especially as on my
car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine.

but I am assuming that the sump drain plug is at the bottom somewhere ?

Yes of course, but that's the whole point of the pump:

https://www.screwfix.com/p/oil-fluid-extractor-6ltr/21663

Post by Abandoned_Trolley
anyway ... what happened to "flushing oil" ?

Used it once in the early 80s, not since.

[Roger Mills]

Post by RJH
I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some
garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my
car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?

Well, I suppose it avoids having grovel under the car - but I'd prefer
to let the oil drain by gravity in the time honoured fashion.

[Mark D]

Post by Roger Mills

Post by RJH
I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some
garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my
car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?

Well, I suppose it avoids having grovel under the car - but I'd prefer
to let the oil drain by gravity in the time honoured fashion.

Try a Fumoto valve. It's a game changer!

[RJH]

Post by Mark D

Post by Roger Mills

Post by RJH
I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some
garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my
car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?

Well, I suppose it avoids having grovel under the car - but I'd prefer
to let the oil drain by gravity in the time honoured fashion.

Try a Fumoto valve. It's a game changer!

Don't see that as a huge advantage over a sump plug. I'd still have to get
under the car and remove the tray. By the time I've done that removing the
plug is the easy bit. And I'm not sure I like the idea of the exposed little
lever to open it up.

Maybe in motorsport.

[Abandoned_Trolley]

Post by RJH
Maybe in motorsport.

... where I believe a lot of engines use dry sump lubrication ?

[Peter Hill]

Post by RJH
Maybe in motorsport.

...   where I believe a lot of engines use dry sump lubrication ?

and the oil tank still needs a drain cock.

[Theo]

Post by RJH

Post by Mark D
Try a Fumoto valve. It's a game changer!

Don't see that as a huge advantage over a sump plug. I'd still have to get
under the car and remove the tray. By the time I've done that removing the
plug is the easy bit. And I'm not sure I like the idea of the exposed little
lever to open it up.

There's also a nylon clip to prevent the lever being activated by road
debris.

I can see it could be useful if the hose version was piped up to a pump
mounted higher up, so you could turn on the pump and suck oil out of the
sump (rather than the dipstick hole not designed for it). But then you'd
still need to flick the little lever, so you couldn't entirely automate it.

Although even if you have to jack it up, being able to pipe directly into a
waste oil container has its appeal...
(it would have to be a shallow container though)

Theo

[Brian]

Post by RJH
I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some
garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my
car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?

Some Smart Cars don’t have a sump drain plug. It became a standard mod to
replace the sump with a modified one.

When we bought our Smart Car, it was one of the things I checked, although
I later learned ours was to late to be one of the drainless ones. Smart
abandoned the idea.

A lot of the ‘quick oil’ change places in the US suck the old oil out via
the dipstick tube- they feed a pipe into the sump.

I’ve seen a few in garages here.

Personally, I don’t think they are a good idea. A quick ‘whoosh’ of warm
oil as you remove the sump plug should ‘carry’ any sludge etc which is
laying in the bottom of the sump.

If you try to suck the oil with a thin tube - it needs to be thin to go
down the dipstick tube- at best you may suck up a bit of sludge around
where the end of the tube touches the sump.

Ok, if you change you oil regularly, you shouldn’t get sludge but that is
due to flushing it out, which the tube doesn’t.

[newshound]

Post by Brian

Post by RJH
I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some
garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my
car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?

Some Smart Cars don’t have a sump drain plug. It became a standard mod to
replace the sump with a modified one.
When we bought our Smart Car, it was one of the things I checked, although
I later learned ours was to late to be one of the drainless ones. Smart
abandoned the idea.
A lot of the ‘quick oil’ change places in the US suck the old oil out via
the dipstick tube- they feed a pipe into the sump.
I’ve seen a few in garages here.
Personally, I don’t think they are a good idea. A quick ‘whoosh’ of warm
oil as you remove the sump plug should ‘carry’ any sludge etc which is
laying in the bottom of the sump.
If you try to suck the oil with a thin tube - it needs to be thin to go
down the dipstick tube- at best you may suck up a bit of sludge around
where the end of the tube touches the sump.
Ok, if you change you oil regularly, you shouldn’t get sludge but that is
due to flushing it out, which the tube doesn’t.

True, but with the better rings on modern cars you get less blow-by,
sludge is not the problem that it used to be, and modern detergent oils
aim to keep particulate suspended anyway.

I assume that use of pumps by garages is down to time and convenience.
No tray to be kicked over while working on other stuff. No need to use
ramps even for a simple service.

[Fredxx]

Post by RJH
I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some
garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my
car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?

Some of us boat owners have come up with a smarter method of draining
the oil, especially when access to us underside of the sump is problematic:

https://calcuttboatsshop.com/epages/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d/Products/POSP6
https://www.enginesplus.co.uk/product/sump-pump/

Usually a valve is incorporated in the flexible pipe and the pump hung
on something convenient.

[RJH]

Post by Fredxx

Post by RJH
I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some
garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my
car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?

Some of us boat owners have come up with a smarter method of draining
https://calcuttboatsshop.com/epages/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d/Products/POSP6
https://www.enginesplus.co.uk/product/sump-pump/
Usually a valve is incorporated in the flexible pipe and the pump hung
on something convenient.

Again, if you're going to get under the car and remove any guards to get
access to the drain point, you might as well give a spanner a few turns and
remove the sump plug.

At least, I'm assuming that device is somewhere hard to access?

[Fredxx]

Post by RJH

Post by Fredxx

Post by RJH
I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some
garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my
car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?

Some of us boat owners have come up with a smarter method of draining
https://calcuttboatsshop.com/epages/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d/Products/POSP6
https://www.enginesplus.co.uk/product/sump-pump/
Usually a valve is incorporated in the flexible pipe and the pump hung
on something convenient.

Again, if you're going to get under the car and remove any guards to get
access to the drain point, you might as well give a spanner a few turns and
remove the sump plug.
At least, I'm assuming that device is somewhere hard to access?

Eh?

This device effective replaces the sump plug with a hose and pump. On a
narrowboat the sump is a few cm from the base. You simply place the pump
at some convenient location.

The most difficult part is then replacing the filter.

[Peter Hill]

Post by Fredxx

Post by RJH

Post by Fredxx

Post by RJH
I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some
garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my
car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?

Some of us boat owners have come up with a smarter method of draining
https://calcuttboatsshop.com/epages/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d/Products/POSP6
    https://www.enginesplus.co.uk/product/sump-pump/
Usually a valve is incorporated in the flexible pipe and the pump hung
on something convenient.

Again, if you're going to get under the car and remove any guards to get
access to the drain point, you might as well give a spanner a few turns and
remove the sump plug.
At least, I'm assuming that device is somewhere hard to access?

Eh?
This device effective replaces the sump plug with a hose and pump. On a
narrowboat the sump is a few cm from the base. You simply place the pump
at some convenient location.
The most difficult part is then replacing the filter.

Have they not heard about remote filter kits?

But it adds at least 4 more joints that can piss oil.

And needs more oil as the hoses to and from the remote filter have to be
filled.

[Abandoned_Trolley]

Post by Peter Hill
Have they not heard about remote filter kits?
But it adds at least 4 more joints that can piss oil.
And needs more oil as the hoses to and from the remote filter have to be
filled.

might as well stick in an oil cooler while you are at it ?

[Fredxx]

Post by Peter Hill

Post by Fredxx

Post by RJH

Post by Fredxx

Post by RJH
I see these were on sale recently at Lidl. I'd always thought they were a bad
idea as you can't be sure you get all the old oil out. But I gather some
garages use them and it'd certainly make my life easier, especially as on my
car the oil filter is accessed from the top of the engine. Any views?

Some of us boat owners have come up with a smarter method of draining
https://calcuttboatsshop.com/epages/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/c3a6cb0f-3e0f-4132-9636-974f7502e04d/Products/POSP6
    https://www.enginesplus.co.uk/product/sump-pump/
Usually a valve is incorporated in the flexible pipe and the pump hung
on something convenient.

Again, if you're going to get under the car and remove any guards to get
access to the drain point, you might as well give a spanner a few turns and
remove the sump plug.
At least, I'm assuming that device is somewhere hard to access?

Eh?
This device effective replaces the sump plug with a hose and pump. On
a narrowboat the sump is a few cm from the base. You simply place the
pump at some convenient location.
The most difficult part is then replacing the filter.

Have they not heard about remote filter kits?
But it adds at least 4 more joints that can piss oil.
And needs more oil as the hoses to and from the remote filter have to be
filled.

On the engine I have in mind access to the oil filter is good, so no
need for a remote filter. Unscrewing the filter may require a tool, my
point was that operating a handpump to empty the oil is a trivial operation.

The remote oil filter may well be useful for some marinised engines.