Alternator refurb?

[T i m]

Hi all,

Daughters trusty 1.2 Corsa C has now got over 200,000 miles on it and
last week threw up an ignition light (that she failed to mention to
me and carried on driving on a few short trips ..), and then the PS
stopped and it finally wouldn't restart (luckily when parked up at my
mums).

I got to it the next day when it started again, noticed the voltage
dropping on the battery when the engine was running but was able to
move it to get it on a charger for a couple of days. This morning I
drove it 1/2 mile to my mate when he is going to get the alternator
off and then give it to me to see what I can do.

So, what are the chances (given the mileage) it's 'just' the brushes
and if a Valeo unit (where I understand the brushes have been the same
for many years now and look cheap on ebay), look fairly easy to
change?

Basically the idea is to just try to keep it running for now and hope
it lasts till after the lockdown till she can start looking for a
replacement.

I'm pretty sure the battery is good as she was driving on it for a
couple of days and was showing 14.4V on the charger when I took it off
(and I drove and stopped and started it a few times this morning).

She's a key worker so has been working and driving all along.

Cheers, T i m

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by T i m
Hi all,
Daughters trusty 1.2 Corsa C has now got over 200,000 miles on it and
last week threw up an ignition light (that she failed to mention to
me and carried on driving on a few short trips ..), and then the PS
stopped and it finally wouldn't restart (luckily when parked up at my
mums).
I got to it the next day when it started again, noticed the voltage
dropping on the battery when the engine was running but was able to
move it to get it on a charger for a couple of days. This morning I
drove it 1/2 mile to my mate when he is going to get the alternator
off and then give it to me to see what I can do.
So, what are the chances (given the mileage) it's 'just' the brushes
and if a Valeo unit (where I understand the brushes have been the same
for many years now and look cheap on ebay), look fairly easy to
change?
Basically the idea is to just try to keep it running for now and hope
it lasts till after the lockdown till she can start looking for a
replacement.
I'm pretty sure the battery is good as she was driving on it for a
couple of days and was showing 14.4V on the charger when I took it off
(and I drove and stopped and started it a few times this morning).
She's a key worker so has been working and driving all along.

Check the battery voltage, engine running. Should be something like
13.8-14.4v. If much lower, most likely fault (90%) is a failed regulator.
Not difficult to change with the alternator on the bench and costs less
than 30 quid off ebay. Do make sure you get the correct one, though.

[T i m]

On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 16:34:27 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by T i m
I got to it the next day when it started again, noticed the voltage
dropping on the battery when the engine was running

<snip>

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Check the battery voltage, engine running.

I did. ;-)

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Should be something like
13.8-14.4v. If much lower,

It was, and falling fast.

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
most likely fault (90%) is a failed regulator.

Ok.

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Not difficult to change with the alternator on the bench and costs less
than 30 quid off ebay.

I've got the reg off and note one brush is very (too) short and most
likely explains why one of the slip rings is badly worn / eroded (not
sure if it's plastic I can see or just very carbonised copper). [1]

Loading Image...

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Do make sure you get the correct one, though.

Alternator itself is a:

Bosch 70
0 124 225 018
GCB2 14V -> 70A
24 437 119
Made in Spain (900) XK

The VR is a:
BR14-M3-V14
Foom 145 231

~25 quid for a new reg on eBay, or about the same for a s/h
alternator?

Cheers, T i m

[1] I have a lathe, is this something that can be repaired?

[Fredxx]

Post by T i m
On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 16:34:27 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<snip>

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by T i m
I got to it the next day when it started again, noticed the voltage
dropping on the battery when the engine was running

<snip>

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Check the battery voltage, engine running.

I did. ;-)

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Should be something like
13.8-14.4v. If much lower,

It was, and falling fast.

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
most likely fault (90%) is a failed regulator.

Ok.

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Not difficult to change with the alternator on the bench and costs less
than 30 quid off ebay.

I've got the reg off and note one brush is very (too) short and most
likely explains why one of the slip rings is badly worn / eroded (not
sure if it's plastic I can see or just very carbonised copper). [1]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lehfo39k3xcmld4/Slip%20rings.jpg?dl=0

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Do make sure you get the correct one, though.

Bosch 70
0 124 225 018
GCB2 14V -> 70A
24 437 119
Made in Spain (900) XK
BR14-M3-V14
Foom 145 231
~25 quid for a new reg on eBay, or about the same for a s/h
alternator?
Cheers, T i m
[1] I have a lathe, is this something that can be repaired?

I have cleaned slip rings up but you can also get new one for most Bosch
alternators.

This guy has videos for most alternators. I have purchased parts on eBay
from him:
https://www.youtube.com/user/WestronicsIrl/videos

[T i m]

On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 22:04:26 +0100, Fredxx <***@nospam.com> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
[1] I have a lathe, is this something that can be repaired?

I have cleaned slip rings up but you can also get new one for most Bosch
alternators.
This guy has videos for most alternators. I have purchased parts on eBay
https://www.youtube.com/user/WestronicsIrl/videos

Thanks for that, very encouraging and answers so many questions (like
how the connection is made to the slipring itself).

What I like (in a shuddery sorta way) is how 'crude' his work is
(mainly using screwdrivers as anything but a screwdriver and a hammer
<g>) but how effective it seems to be (in that he makes it work
again). ;-)

I couldn't see one from him for the Bosch but there is one here:

(He doesn't replace the sliprings though).

You think your man might be able to supply the sliprings for our
Bosch?

Cheers, T i m

[Fredxx]

Post by T i m
<snip>

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
[1] I have a lathe, is this something that can be repaired?

I have cleaned slip rings up but you can also get new one for most Bosch
alternators.
This guy has videos for most alternators. I have purchased parts on eBay
https://www.youtube.com/user/WestronicsIrl/videos

Thanks for that, very encouraging and answers so many questions (like
how the connection is made to the slipring itself).
http://youtu.be/f56-26I6idc
What I like (in a shuddery sorta way) is how 'crude' his work is
(mainly using screwdrivers as anything but a screwdriver and a hammer
<g>) but how effective it seems to be (in that he makes it work
again). ;-)

His videos do show what seems a ham-fisted approach, but gives some very
useful tips with using minimal tools.

Post by T i m
http://youtu.be/bm_3r1GfJKg
(He doesn't replace the sliprings though).
You think your man might be able to supply the sliprings for our
Bosch?

When I gave him my numbers he said it was a Chinese copy of a Bosch. I
replaced bearings and the slip rings as I had damaged them whilst
disassembling the alternator. I also replaced the regulator/brush
assembly. I think the bearing was stuck to the case so the bearing moved
into the slip ring as I pulled the rotor out of the rear case.

If you have the alternator details send him a message and say what you
need. I felt his prices were competitive and he seems to know his
business. Everything he sent fitted mine without drama.

If I recall, mine looked very much like the Valeo in his video. I'm sure
the soldering to the rotor windings was very similar.

I found the front bearing very tight and the body flexed under a light
load from a press. So I heated the alloy casing and the bearing near
fell out. Something I should have considered when separating the stator
and the rear case!

[T i m]

On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 01:55:32 +0100, Fredxx <***@nospam.com> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
What I like (in a shuddery sorta way) is how 'crude' his work is
(mainly using screwdrivers as anything but a screwdriver and a hammer
<g>) but how effective it seems to be (in that he makes it work
again). ;-)

His videos do show what seems a ham-fisted approach,

Tbf, we are often zoomed in on what he is doing so that might
exaggerate it a bit. ;-)

Post by Fredxx
but gives some very
useful tips with using minimal tools.

That was a thought ... rather than assuming everyone had a Dremel, 10
tonne press and a range of pullers and digging and picking tools.
<snip>

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
You think your man might be able to supply the sliprings for our
Bosch?

When I gave him my numbers he said it was a Chinese copy of a Bosch.

Oh?

Post by Fredxx
I
replaced bearings and the slip rings as I had damaged them whilst
disassembling the alternator. I also replaced the regulator/brush
assembly. I think the bearing was stuck to the case so the bearing moved
into the slip ring as I pulled the rotor out of the rear case.

Ah.

Post by Fredxx
If you have the alternator details send him a message and say what you
need. I felt his prices were competitive and he seems to know his
business. Everything he sent fitted mine without drama.

Excellent.

Post by Fredxx
If I recall, mine looked very much like the Valeo in his video. I'm sure
the soldering to the rotor windings was very similar.

Ok.

Post by Fredxx
I found the front bearing very tight and the body flexed under a light
load from a press. So I heated the alloy casing and the bearing near
fell out. Something I should have considered when separating the stator
and the rear case!

From a fair amount of such work on motorbikes that's something I often
do (oven or hot air gun) and with similarly dramatic results. That and
putting the bearing in the freezer etc.

I'll drop him a line, thanks.

Cheers, T i m

[Peter Hill]

Post by T i m
<snip>

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
What I like (in a shuddery sorta way) is how 'crude' his work is
(mainly using screwdrivers as anything but a screwdriver and a hammer
<g>) but how effective it seems to be (in that he makes it work
again). ;-)

His videos do show what seems a ham-fisted approach,

Tbf, we are often zoomed in on what he is doing so that might
exaggerate it a bit. ;-)

Post by Fredxx
but gives some very
useful tips with using minimal tools.

That was a thought ... rather than assuming everyone had a Dremel, 10
tonne press and a range of pullers and digging and picking tools.
<snip>

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
You think your man might be able to supply the sliprings for our
Bosch?

When I gave him my numbers he said it was a Chinese copy of a Bosch.

Oh?

Post by Fredxx
I
replaced bearings and the slip rings as I had damaged them whilst
disassembling the alternator. I also replaced the regulator/brush
assembly. I think the bearing was stuck to the case so the bearing moved
into the slip ring as I pulled the rotor out of the rear case.

Ah.

Post by Fredxx
If you have the alternator details send him a message and say what you
need. I felt his prices were competitive and he seems to know his
business. Everything he sent fitted mine without drama.

Excellent.

Post by Fredxx
If I recall, mine looked very much like the Valeo in his video. I'm sure
the soldering to the rotor windings was very similar.

Ok.

Post by Fredxx
I found the front bearing very tight and the body flexed under a light
load from a press. So I heated the alloy casing and the bearing near
fell out. Something I should have considered when separating the stator
and the rear case!

From a fair amount of such work on motorbikes that's something I often
do (oven or hot air gun) and with similarly dramatic results. That and
putting the bearing in the freezer etc.
I'll drop him a line, thanks.
Cheers, T i m

Factory workshop manual for a late 80's Nissan says heat bearing housing
on rear cover with 200W soldering iron and says do not use heat gun as
it can damage diode assy. Rear bearing is also retained by a snap ring.

[T i m]

On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 13:03:53 +0100, Peter Hill
<***@skyshacknospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Peter Hill

Post by T i m
From a fair amount of such work on motorbikes that's something I often
do (oven or hot air gun) and with similarly dramatic results. That and
putting the bearing in the freezer etc.

Factory workshop manual for a late 80's Nissan says heat bearing housing
on rear cover with 200W soldering iron and says do not use heat gun as
it can damage diode assy.

I think there is heat and 'heat' Peter.

Uncle was trying to get the bearing out of the rear casing of his
Lambretta LD 150 (shaft drive) scooter. A neighbour, thinking he
needed more heat, went and got his blowlamp and 'assisted'. When the
aluminium casing collapsed he turned his blowlamp off and walked away.
;-(

I think if you got it as warm as it get's beside the exhaust and
behind a hot engine in slow moving traffic, that should be enough. ;-)

Post by Peter Hill
Rear bearing is also retained by a snap ring.

They are thing you certainly need to look out for, especially when
it's under a 10 tonne press!

Cheers, T i m

[Fredxx]

Post by Peter Hill

Post by T i m
<snip>

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
What I like (in a shuddery sorta way) is how 'crude' his work is
(mainly using screwdrivers as anything but a screwdriver and a hammer
<g>) but how effective it seems to be (in that he makes it work
again). ;-)

His videos do show what seems a ham-fisted approach,

Tbf, we are often zoomed in on what he is doing so that might
exaggerate it a bit. ;-)

Post by Fredxx
but gives some very
useful tips with using minimal tools.

That was a thought ... rather than assuming everyone had a Dremel, 10
tonne press and a range of pullers and digging and picking tools.
<snip>

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
You think your man might be able to supply the sliprings for our
Bosch?

When I gave him my numbers he said it was a Chinese copy of a Bosch.

Oh?

Post by Fredxx
I
replaced bearings and the slip rings as I had damaged them whilst
disassembling the alternator. I also replaced the regulator/brush
assembly. I think the bearing was stuck to the case so the bearing moved
into the slip ring as I pulled the rotor out of the rear case.

Ah.

Post by Fredxx
If you have the alternator details send him a message and say what you
need. I felt his prices were competitive and he seems to know his
business. Everything he sent fitted mine without drama.

Excellent.

Post by Fredxx
If I recall, mine looked very much like the Valeo in his video. I'm sure
the soldering to the rotor windings was very similar.

Ok.

Post by Fredxx
I found the front bearing very tight and the body flexed under a light
load from a press. So I heated the alloy casing and the bearing near
fell out. Something I should have considered when separating the stator
and the rear case!

 From a fair amount of such work on motorbikes that's something I often
do (oven or hot air gun) and with similarly dramatic results. That and
putting the bearing in the freezer etc.
I'll drop him a line, thanks.
Cheers, T i m

Factory workshop manual for a late 80's Nissan says heat bearing housing
on rear cover with 200W soldering iron and says do not use heat gun as
it can damage diode assy. Rear bearing is also retained by a snap ring.

Now you tell me!! :-)

My alternator was a generation newer!

[T i m]

On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 01:55:32 +0100, Fredxx <***@nospam.com> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
You think your man might be able to supply the sliprings for our
Bosch?

When I gave him my numbers he said it was a Chinese copy of a Bosch.

It looks like he's gone incommunicado as none of his Internet
presence's seem current / valid?

If he's bothered to put those videos up to help others and knows what
he's doing I'd like to give him my custom if possible?

Do you have any current contact info for him please?

Cheers, T i m

[Peter Hill]

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 16:34:27 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<snip>

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by T i m
I got to it the next day when it started again, noticed the voltage
dropping on the battery when the engine was running

<snip>

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Check the battery voltage, engine running.

I did. ;-)

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Should be something like
13.8-14.4v. If much lower,

It was, and falling fast.

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
most likely fault (90%) is a failed regulator.

Ok.

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Not difficult to change with the alternator on the bench and costs less
than 30 quid off ebay.

I've got the reg off and note one brush is very (too) short and most
likely explains why one of the slip rings is badly worn / eroded (not
sure if it's plastic I can see or just very carbonised copper). [1]
https://www.dropbox.com/s/lehfo39k3xcmld4/Slip%20rings.jpg?dl=0

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Do make sure you get the correct one, though.

Bosch 70
0 124 225 018
GCB2 14V -> 70A
24 437 119
Made in Spain (900) XK
BR14-M3-V14
Foom 145 231
~25 quid for a new reg on eBay, or about the same for a s/h
alternator?
Cheers, T i m
[1] I have a lathe, is this something that can be repaired?

I have cleaned slip rings up but you can also get new one for most Bosch
alternators.
This guy has videos for most alternators. I have purchased parts on eBay
  https://www.youtube.com/user/WestronicsIrl/videos

Clean up the slip ring with fine wet and dry, you won't ever get it to
as new. Fit new brushes. Expect them to last about 50K, 5-10 years?

Or you do the full strip down to fit new slip rings.

[T i m]

On Thu, 11 Jun 2020 08:45:32 +0100, Peter Hill
<***@skyshacknospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Peter Hill
Clean up the slip ring with fine wet and dry, you won't ever get it to
as new.

I've tried using my Leatherman diamond hone whilst holding it against
the body of the brush cover and spinning the armature and I think the
bit where the brush runs on one ring is down to the plastic. It
'might' pick up on the edges of the groove for a while but not for
long. ;-(

Post by Peter Hill
Fit new brushes. Expect them to last about 50K, 5-10 years?

I would and I agree, was it not for how much it's worn.

Post by Peter Hill
Or you do the full strip down to fit new slip rings.

I think that's the way but it's a toss up between spending ~£35 > £50
on the parts and doing it versus getting a s/h alternator for less
(the chances are it wouldn't have done 200,000+ miles) and getting her
going quicker?

I would still refurb the old alternator, even if just for the S&G's,
if I could get the parts etc.

Cheers, T i m

[Fredxx]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)

Post by T i m
Hi all,
Daughters trusty 1.2 Corsa C has now got over 200,000 miles on it and
last week threw up an ignition light (that she failed to mention to
me and carried on driving on a few short trips ..), and then the PS
stopped and it finally wouldn't restart (luckily when parked up at my
mums).
I got to it the next day when it started again, noticed the voltage
dropping on the battery when the engine was running but was able to
move it to get it on a charger for a couple of days. This morning I
drove it 1/2 mile to my mate when he is going to get the alternator
off and then give it to me to see what I can do.
So, what are the chances (given the mileage) it's 'just' the brushes
and if a Valeo unit (where I understand the brushes have been the same
for many years now and look cheap on ebay), look fairly easy to
change?
Basically the idea is to just try to keep it running for now and hope
it lasts till after the lockdown till she can start looking for a
replacement.
I'm pretty sure the battery is good as she was driving on it for a
couple of days and was showing 14.4V on the charger when I took it off
(and I drove and stopped and started it a few times this morning).
She's a key worker so has been working and driving all along.

Check the battery voltage, engine running. Should be something like
13.8-14.4v. If much lower, most likely fault (90%) is a failed regulator.
Not difficult to change with the alternator on the bench and costs less
than 30 quid off ebay. Do make sure you get the correct one, though.

At 200k miles the most likely failure is brushes.

[T i m]

On Wed, 10 Jun 2020 21:54:44 +0100, Fredxx <***@nospam.com> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Fredxx
At 200k miles the most likely failure is brushes.

That may then take out the slipring?

Given that I believe the alternator on her Corsa is the same one as on
our Meriva, what we might do is see if we can pick up a d/h spare and
fit it to get her going again and then I could refurbish hers (at
least sliprings and regulator with brushes, if the brushes can't be
changed as well) , keeping it as a spare for both of us (and so
guaranteeing neither of us will ever need one). ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Fredxx]

Post by T i m
<snip>

Post by Fredxx
At 200k miles the most likely failure is brushes.

That may then take out the slipring?

Usually emery can take out the pitting?

Post by T i m
Given that I believe the alternator on her Corsa is the same one as on
our Meriva, what we might do is see if we can pick up a d/h spare and
fit it to get her going again and then I could refurbish hers (at
least sliprings and regulator with brushes, if the brushes can't be
changed as well) , keeping it as a spare for both of us (and so
guaranteeing neither of us will ever need one). ;-)

On another alternator I was able to change the brushes. They were £4 on
eBay! With the fake Bosch it seemed attractive to replace the whole
regulator/brush unit.

[T i m]

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
<snip>

Post by Fredxx
At 200k miles the most likely failure is brushes.

That may then take out the slipring?

Usually emery can take out the pitting?

It's just that on another Youtube video I watched
there was one very short brush and similar to ours, that slipring was
worn though to the plastic? I didn't know that if the brush get's hung
up where there is next to no contact pressure on the slipring it then
just acts like a spark eroder, eating away that ring in short time?

(I repaired an electric mower that was working, went intermittent then
stopped ... and if it did start and you ran it with the cover off, the
sparks on one brush / commutator was like a sparkler!)

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
Given that I believe the alternator on her Corsa is the same one as on
our Meriva, what we might do is see if we can pick up a d/h spare and
fit it to get her going again and then I could refurbish hers (at
least sliprings and regulator with brushes, if the brushes can't be
changed as well) , keeping it as a spare for both of us (and so
guaranteeing neither of us will ever need one). ;-)

On another alternator I was able to change the brushes. They were £4 on
eBay! With the fake Bosch it seemed attractive to replace the whole
regulator/brush unit.

Agreed.

I had actually watched one of mateys alternator videos before you
linked to him and in that one he replaces the brushes by grinding the
old solder away, opening the holes, poking the new brush braid though
and then bending it over and re-soldering. I haven't yet been able to
see the back end of the brushes on this Bosch as they might be behind
a cover that could be glued on (that I'd have to break off .. and
re-seal with silicone if not the cover).

I would love to repair this one and may still if I can get the parts
quicker than a spare alternator.

Cheers, T i m

[Fredxx]

Post by T i m

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
<snip>

Post by Fredxx
At 200k miles the most likely failure is brushes.

That may then take out the slipring?

Usually emery can take out the pitting?

It's just that on another Youtube video I watched
there was one very short brush and similar to ours, that slipring was
worn though to the plastic? I didn't know that if the brush get's hung
up where there is next to no contact pressure on the slipring it then
just acts like a spark eroder, eating away that ring in short time?
(I repaired an electric mower that was working, went intermittent then
stopped ... and if it did start and you ran it with the cover off, the
sparks on one brush / commutator was like a sparkler!)

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
Given that I believe the alternator on her Corsa is the same one as on
our Meriva, what we might do is see if we can pick up a d/h spare and
fit it to get her going again and then I could refurbish hers (at
least sliprings and regulator with brushes, if the brushes can't be
changed as well) , keeping it as a spare for both of us (and so
guaranteeing neither of us will ever need one). ;-)

On another alternator I was able to change the brushes. They were £4 on
eBay! With the fake Bosch it seemed attractive to replace the whole
regulator/brush unit.

Agreed.
I had actually watched one of mateys alternator videos before you
linked to him and in that one he replaces the brushes by grinding the
old solder away, opening the holes, poking the new brush braid though
and then bending it over and re-soldering. I haven't yet been able to
see the back end of the brushes on this Bosch as they might be behind
a cover that could be glued on (that I'd have to break off .. and
re-seal with silicone if not the cover).
I would love to repair this one and may still if I can get the parts
quicker than a spare alternator.

I've just checked his Youtube page and it seems his eBay account is
closed. His facebook page is:
https://www.facebook.com/Westronics-574889236038020

which still has an gmail email address and a website:
www.saverepair.com

which if you go to is up for sale.

Sorry, it seems I have created a dead-end for you. In which case it's a
shame as he was quite responsive in providing assistance.

However a further search came up with eBay seller:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/goldlion_autoelectrics

If you click on business details you'll see a similar name to Martin and
a familiar email address. There are no items for sale.

[T i m]

On Sun, 14 Jun 2020 00:13:17 +0100, Fredxx <***@nospam.com> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
I would love to repair this one and may still if I can get the parts
quicker than a spare alternator.

I've just checked his Youtube page and it seems his eBay account is
https://www.facebook.com/Westronics-574889236038020
www.saverepair.com
which if you go to is up for sale.
Sorry, it seems I have created a dead-end for you. In which case it's a
shame as he was quite responsive in providing assistance.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/goldlion_autoelectrics

Yup, I think I found all that also (mentioned elsewhere). ;-(

Post by Fredxx
If you click on business details you'll see a similar name to Martin and
a familiar email address. There are no items for sale.

Oh well, maybe he's changed his game. At least I know (thanks to you /
him) it can all be done d-i-y. ;-)

The Corsa seems to be running ok with the 120A alternator (for now
anyway) and I do intend to try to refurb her old one for the S&G's
(less risk now as well) as it's the same as fitted to the Meriva so
might be of use.

Alternatively (excuse the pun), I wonder how practical it would be to
use to make a petrol powered high current generator / charger?

70A at ~14V is roughly 1kW and so a 2hp engine should do it and you
can get 6hp jobbys new on the Internet, assuming I can't find an old
lawnmower engine somewhere. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[Fredxx]

Post by T i m
<snip>

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
I would love to repair this one and may still if I can get the parts
quicker than a spare alternator.

I've just checked his Youtube page and it seems his eBay account is
https://www.facebook.com/Westronics-574889236038020
www.saverepair.com
which if you go to is up for sale.
Sorry, it seems I have created a dead-end for you. In which case it's a
shame as he was quite responsive in providing assistance.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/goldlion_autoelectrics

Yup, I think I found all that also (mentioned elsewhere). ;-(

Post by Fredxx
If you click on business details you'll see a similar name to Martin and
a familiar email address. There are no items for sale.

Oh well, maybe he's changed his game. At least I know (thanks to you /
him) it can all be done d-i-y. ;-)
The Corsa seems to be running ok with the 120A alternator (for now
anyway) and I do intend to try to refurb her old one for the S&G's
(less risk now as well) as it's the same as fitted to the Meriva so
might be of use.
Alternatively (excuse the pun), I wonder how practical it would be to
use to make a petrol powered high current generator / charger?
70A at ~14V is roughly 1kW and so a 2hp engine should do it and you
can get 6hp jobbys new on the Internet, assuming I can't find an old
lawnmower engine somewhere. ;-)

From:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/goldlion_autoelectric

You can get Eamonn Reilly Ltd from business details. They have an active
Facebook page which mentions alternator repairs.

https://www.facebook.com/eamonnreillyltd/

The address for WESTRONICS LIMITED is
C/O EAMONN REILLY
SANDYHILL
WESTPORT
CO. MAYO

The only issue with attaching an alternator to a small engine is that at
low rpm, once the field winding is energised the torque at low revs is
high. They are pretty much constant power devices. So low gearing may be
required so the engine is spinning at a modest revs when the alternator
'kicks in'.

You'd need a small battery and a 1kW inverter.

There is a company that uses an alternator and direct inverter/control
to produce 230v directly for boat applications. Alternators are
multi-pole and produce high frequency AC so the stator is not suitable
for direct connection to conventional 50/60Hz transformers.

[Peter Hill]

Post by T i m
<snip>

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
I would love to repair this one and may still if I can get the parts
quicker than a spare alternator.

I've just checked his Youtube page and it seems his eBay account is
   https://www.facebook.com/Westronics-574889236038020
   www.saverepair.com
which if you go to is up for sale.
Sorry, it seems I have created a dead-end for you. In which case it's a
shame as he was quite responsive in providing assistance.
   https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/goldlion_autoelectrics

Yup, I think I found all that also (mentioned elsewhere). ;-(

Post by Fredxx
If you click on business details you'll see a similar name to Martin and
a familiar email address. There are no items for sale.

Oh well, maybe he's changed his game. At least I know (thanks to you /
him) it can all be done d-i-y. ;-)
The Corsa seems to be running ok with the 120A alternator (for now
anyway) and I do intend to try to refurb her old one for the S&G's
(less risk now as well) as it's the same as fitted to the Meriva so
might be of use.
Alternatively (excuse the pun), I wonder how practical it would be to
use to make a petrol powered high current generator / charger?
70A at ~14V is roughly 1kW and so a 2hp engine should do it and you
can get 6hp jobbys new on the Internet, assuming I can't find an old
lawnmower engine somewhere. ;-)

  https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/goldlion_autoelectric
You can get Eamonn Reilly Ltd from business details. They have an active
Facebook page which mentions alternator repairs.
https://www.facebook.com/eamonnreillyltd/
The address for WESTRONICS LIMITED is
C/O EAMONN REILLY
SANDYHILL
WESTPORT
CO. MAYO
The only issue with attaching an alternator to a small engine is that at
low rpm, once the field winding is energised the torque at low revs is
high. They are pretty much constant power devices. So low gearing may be
required so the engine is spinning at a modest revs when the alternator
'kicks in'.
You'd need a small battery and a 1kW inverter.
There is a company that uses an alternator and direct inverter/control
to produce 230v directly for boat applications. Alternators are
multi-pole and produce high frequency AC so the stator is not suitable
for direct connection to conventional 50/60Hz transformers.

Or put a switch in series with the charge lamp. Then the field doesn't
get power until you switch it on after revving the the engine up. Unless
the stator residual magnetisum kicks the field coil into life.

But you really need a governor.

[T i m]

On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 20:42:05 +0100, Peter Hill
<***@skyshacknospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Peter Hill

Post by Fredxx
There is a company that uses an alternator and direct inverter/control
to produce 230v directly for boat applications. Alternators are
multi-pole and produce high frequency AC so the stator is not suitable
for direct connection to conventional 50/60Hz transformers.

Or put a switch in series with the charge lamp. Then the field doesn't
get power until you switch it on after revving the the engine up. Unless
the stator residual magnetisum kicks the field coil into life.
But you really need a governor.

That could either be a flap off the cooling fan, as per many
lawnmowers or a position sensor and servo connected to the throttle
via an Arduino [1]. ;-)

Cheers, T i m

[1] When I designed and built my electric racing (endurance) motorbike
I used a basic voltmeter module for all sorts of things. B1V, B2V,
B1+2V, I (voltage drop over the longest battery cable) and MPH. The
speed was obtained by sensing the teeth in a(n unused) gear internal
to the rear hub (I had scrounged parts from a local motorcycle shop).

The teeth were 'read' by a magna tic sensor I fitted through the
casing, the output of that fed to a F to V converter and the V fed to
my module and read in MPH. I calculated the loaded circumference of
the wheel, what frequency that would equate to in f/mph and then used
a bench oscillator to calibrate the voltmeter to mph. Going though a
circuit radar trap showed it was within .5 mph and theirs only showed
in whole digits. ;-)

[T i m]

On Mon, 15 Jun 2020 14:32:52 +0100, Fredxx <***@nospam.com> wrote:

<snip>

Post by Fredxx

Post by T i m
Alternatively (excuse the pun), I wonder how practical it would be to
use to make a petrol powered high current generator / charger?
70A at ~14V is roughly 1kW and so a 2hp engine should do it and you
can get 6hp jobbys new on the Internet, assuming I can't find an old
lawnmower engine somewhere. ;-)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/usr/goldlion_autoelectric
You can get Eamonn Reilly Ltd from business details. They have an active
Facebook page which mentions alternator repairs.
https://www.facebook.com/eamonnreillyltd/
The address for WESTRONICS LIMITED is
C/O EAMONN REILLY
SANDYHILL
WESTPORT
CO. MAYO

Thanks for those mate, I'll follow it up.

Post by Fredxx
The only issue with attaching an alternator to a small engine is that at
low rpm, once the field winding is energised the torque at low revs is
high. They are pretty much constant power devices.

Depending on the resistance of the load?

Post by Fredxx
So low gearing may be
required so the engine is spinning at a modest revs when the alternator
'kicks in'.

Understood.

Post by Fredxx
You'd need a small battery

Understood.

Post by Fredxx
and a 1kW inverter.

Not for charging 12V batteries?

Post by Fredxx
There is a company that uses an alternator and direct inverter/control
to produce 230v directly for boat applications. Alternators are
multi-pole and produce high frequency AC so the stator is not suitable
for direct connection to conventional 50/60Hz transformers.

Interesting, thanks.

Cheers, T i m

[AJH]

Post by T i m
Daughters trusty 1.2 Corsa C has now got over 200,000 miles on it and
last week threw up an ignition light

I have been sorting through my collection of lucas ACR alternators,
taken off and replaced on various motors and just hoarded.

I'm wondering what the more common point of failure is.

I have rigged a lead with an incandescent 12V bulb to the field terminal
and connected these alternators up, all exhibit a bright warning light
when connected and the 12V supply feeding the large output terminal
with the negative taken to the alternator earth.

None of them dim even when spun at 2600rpm with a drill.

Taking one apart I find the field is being energised with 100mA via the
brushes and slip ring and the field coils are not shorted to the
armature body.

The rectifier checks out good after de soldering the three stator
connections, however with the field energised and testing the stator
coils for ac there is next to no volts being generated, yet the stator
coils are not shorted to earth. I surmise the insulation of the stator
coils has failed to a dead short.

Any other theories?

[Fredxx]

Post by AJH

Post by T i m
Daughters trusty 1.2 Corsa C has now got over 200,000 miles on it and
last week threw up an ignition light

I have been sorting through my collection of lucas ACR alternators,
taken off and replaced on various motors and just hoarded.
I'm wondering what the more common point of failure is.
I have rigged a lead with an incandescent 12V bulb to the field terminal
 and connected these alternators up, all exhibit a bright warning light
when connected and  the 12V supply feeding the large output terminal
with the negative taken to the alternator earth.
None of them dim even when spun at 2600rpm with a drill.
Taking one apart I find the field is being energised with 100mA via the
brushes and slip ring and the field coils are not shorted to the
armature body.
The rectifier checks out good after de soldering the three stator
connections, however with the field energised  and testing the stator
coils for ac there is next to no volts being generated, yet the stator
coils are not shorted to earth. I surmise the insulation of the stator
coils has failed to a dead short.
Any other theories?

Older alternators needed a faster 'kick-in' speed for the alternator to
'boot' up. Try a higher wattage bulb in series with the field connection.

If you have disconnected all the diodes, then you have also disconnected
the common 'earth' leg used by the field side. I suggest you reconnect
at least the earthy side of the diode stack.

[AJH]

Post by Fredxx

Post by AJH

Post by T i m
Daughters trusty 1.2 Corsa C has now got over 200,000 miles on it and
last week threw up an ignition light

I have been sorting through my collection of lucas ACR alternators,
taken off and replaced on various motors and just hoarded.
I'm wondering what the more common point of failure is.
I have rigged a lead with an incandescent 12V bulb to the field
terminal   and connected these alternators up, all exhibit a bright
warning light when connected and  the 12V supply feeding the large
output terminal with the negative taken to the alternator earth.
None of them dim even when spun at 2600rpm with a drill.
Taking one apart I find the field is being energised with 100mA via
the brushes and slip ring and the field coils are not shorted to the
armature body.
The rectifier checks out good after de soldering the three stator
connections, however with the field energised  and testing the stator
coils for ac there is next to no volts being generated, yet the stator
coils are not shorted to earth. I surmise the insulation of the stator
coils has failed to a dead short.
Any other theories?

Older alternators needed a faster 'kick-in' speed for the alternator to
'boot' up. Try a higher wattage bulb in series with the field connection.

I tested the system with the alternator in the MGB and it worked, using
a jump pack as the battery,extinguishing the test light at 900rpm.

Post by Fredxx
If you have disconnected all the diodes, then you have also disconnected
the common 'earth' leg used by the field side. I suggest you reconnect
at least the earthy side of the diode stack.

Are you sure? As far AFAICS the field circuit is from the IGN spade,
through the two brushes and field coil to earth, with the regulator
shunting the field coil and earth.

[Fredxx]

Post by AJH

Post by Fredxx

Post by AJH

Post by T i m
Daughters trusty 1.2 Corsa C has now got over 200,000 miles on it and
last week threw up an ignition light

I have been sorting through my collection of lucas ACR alternators,
taken off and replaced on various motors and just hoarded.
I'm wondering what the more common point of failure is.
I have rigged a lead with an incandescent 12V bulb to the field
terminal   and connected these alternators up, all exhibit a bright
warning light when connected and  the 12V supply feeding the large
output terminal with the negative taken to the alternator earth.
None of them dim even when spun at 2600rpm with a drill.
Taking one apart I find the field is being energised with 100mA via
the brushes and slip ring and the field coils are not shorted to the
armature body.
The rectifier checks out good after de soldering the three stator
connections, however with the field energised  and testing the stator
coils for ac there is next to no volts being generated, yet the
stator coils are not shorted to earth. I surmise the insulation of
the stator coils has failed to a dead short.
Any other theories?

Older alternators needed a faster 'kick-in' speed for the alternator
to 'boot' up. Try a higher wattage bulb in series with the field
connection.

I tested the system with the alternator in the MGB and it worked, using
a jump pack as the battery,extinguishing the test light at 900rpm.

Is that 900 rpm engine speed?

Post by AJH

Post by Fredxx
If you have disconnected all the diodes, then you have also
disconnected the common 'earth' leg used by the field side. I suggest
you reconnect at least the earthy side of the diode stack.

Are you sure? As far AFAICS the field circuit is from the IGN spade,
through the two brushes and field coil to earth, with the regulator
shunting the field coil and earth.

http://www.sound-research.co.uk/Rover/alt2.htm

You need diode set (2) and (3) to normally power the field coil. If
either are missing there is no circuit and the bulb current passes
through the rotor and regulator irrespective of any voltage in the
stator coils (1).

The diagram differs from the norm and has some incosnsistencies. A
typical regulator is powered only from the field diodes (3) and the
slip rings are at either end of the field (rotor) coil.

[AJH]

Post by Fredxx

Post by AJH
I tested the system with the alternator in the MGB and it worked,
using a jump pack as the battery,extinguishing the test light at 900rpm.

Is that 900 rpm engine speed?

Yes so about 1200rpm on the alternator

Post by Fredxx
  http://www.sound-research.co.uk/Rover/alt2.htm
You need diode set (2) and (3) to normally power the field coil. If
either are missing there is no circuit and the bulb current passes
through the rotor and regulator irrespective of any voltage in the
stator coils (1).
The diagram differs from the norm and has some incosnsistencies. A
typical regulator is powered  only from the field diodes (3) and the
slip rings are at either end of the field (rotor) coil.

Yes for the alternator to drive the field once it is generating but I
was pushing 75mA through the warning lamp and field coil to earth.
spinning the rotor and expecting to see an ac output from a stator coil
and the common terminal. I saw next to nothing.

I have now tried an LRA292 alternator from an unknown source, it has a
huco regulator and brush box , once I cleaned the slip rings and freed
up the brushes that kicked in but the torque reaction when it started
recharging the jump pack knocked it out of my hand, so that one should
be good.

I need one to replace one in my old tractor that seized up starter and
alternator over winter through not being started.

As precaution I have ordered a new lucas but will try and see what is
wrong with my other 4.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

Post by AJH
I have been sorting through my collection of lucas ACR alternators,
taken off and replaced on various motors and just hoarded.
I'm wondering what the more common point of failure is.
I have rigged a lead with an incandescent 12V bulb to the field terminal
and connected these alternators up, all exhibit a bright warning light
when connected and the 12V supply feeding the large output terminal
with the negative taken to the alternator earth.
None of them dim even when spun at 2600rpm with a drill.

Are you using the correct wattage bulb? Not sure if it is critical,
though. Normally 2.2W?

[AJH]

Post by Dave Plowman (News)
Are you using the correct wattage bulb? Not sure if it is critical,
though. Normally 2.2W?

I measure it at 42 Ohms, which suggests about 3.5W but as I say it works
okay when used as a lead for the MGB which has a Lucas of about 30A so
probably a 16ACR.