Flooded Cars?..

[tony sayer]

Seeing a great number of cars in water recently, some just up to the
sills some to the roof bars.

IN this day of lots of electronics in cars what are the chances of them
working again, or are they all just insurance write off's, anyone any
idea?..

[nightjar]

Post by tony sayer
Seeing a great number of cars in water recently, some just up to the
sills some to the roof bars.
IN this day of lots of electronics in cars what are the chances of them
working again, or are they all just insurance write off's, anyone any
idea?..

The actual electronics are generally well sealed, but the real problem
is corrosion of the connectors. That can upset the signals and cause
unpredictable problems for a very long time after the car has been dried
out.

As a general rule of thumb, it is recommended that the car be considered
a write off if the water reached the dashboard. At that point, cleaning
up and drying out the interior and ensuring you have stopped all
corrosion (particularly if it was sea water) become uneconomic for most
cars.

[Andrew]

Post by nightjar

Post by tony sayer
Seeing a great number of cars in water recently, some just up to the
sills some to the roof bars.
IN this day of lots of electronics in cars what are the chances of them
working again, or are they all just insurance write off's, anyone any
idea?..

The actual electronics are generally well sealed, but the real problem
is corrosion of the connectors. That can upset the signals and cause
unpredictable problems for a very long time after the car has been dried
out.
As a general rule of thumb, it is recommended that the car be considered
a write off if the water reached the dashboard. At that point, cleaning
up and drying out the interior and ensuring you have stopped all
corrosion (particularly if it was sea water) become uneconomic for most
cars.

Apparently, just north of Cardiff a building site is under water, and
the bod on the radio was wondering if the plant equipment would be a
write off. I suspect not. That sort of gear is worth stripping down and
cleaning out any gunge that might have got inside gearboxes or
whatever.

The estate agent is going to have fun selling those houses though,
unless of course they are being built for a housing association.
Plus of course the issue with flood water on the incomplete
properties.

[Jethro_uk]

Post by Andrew

Post by nightjar

Post by tony sayer
Seeing a great number of cars in water recently, some just up to the
sills some to the roof bars.
IN this day of lots of electronics in cars what are the chances of
them working again, or are they all just insurance write off's, anyone
any idea?..

The actual electronics are generally well sealed, but the real problem
is corrosion of the connectors. That can upset the signals and cause
unpredictable problems for a very long time after the car has been
dried out.
As a general rule of thumb, it is recommended that the car be
considered a write off if the water reached the dashboard. At that
point, cleaning up and drying out the interior and ensuring you have
stopped all corrosion (particularly if it was sea water) become
uneconomic for most cars.

Apparently, just north of Cardiff a building site is under water, and
the bod on the radio was wondering if the plant equipment would be a
write off. I suspect not. That sort of gear is worth stripping down and
cleaning out any gunge that might have got inside gearboxes or whatever.
The estate agent is going to have fun selling those houses though,
unless of course they are being built for a housing association.
Plus of course the issue with flood water on the incomplete properties.

Just hush it up. Easily done these days. No previous owner = no trail.

And frankly, given the standard of anything built this millennium, there
would be a great expense in knocking it down (a few hard shoves) and
rebuilding it to the same standard as before.

[alan_m]

Post by nightjar
As a general rule of thumb, it is recommended that the car be considered
a write off if the water reached the dashboard.

What about electric cars where the batteries are at a lower level?

[nightjar]

Post by alan_m

Post by nightjar
As a general rule of thumb, it is recommended that the car be
considered a write off if the water reached the dashboard.

What about electric cars where the batteries are at a lower level?

Nissan say that their battery packs are waterproof.

[Andrew]

Post by alan_m

Post by nightjar
As a general rule of thumb, it is recommended that the car be
considered a write off if the water reached the dashboard.

What about electric cars where the batteries are at a lower level?

Todays MATT cartoon in the DT ....

[Brian Reay]

Post by nightjar

Post by tony sayer
Seeing a great number of cars in water recently, some just up to the
sills some to the roof bars.
IN this day of lots of electronics in cars what are the chances of them
working again, or are they all just insurance write off's, anyone any
idea?..

The actual electronics are generally well sealed, but the real problem
is corrosion of the connectors. That can upset the signals and cause
unpredictable problems for a very long time after the car has been dried
out.
As a general rule of thumb, it is recommended that the car be considered
a write off if the water reached the dashboard. At that point, cleaning
up and drying out the interior and ensuring you have stopped all
corrosion (particularly if it was sea water) become uneconomic for most
cars.

I stumbled across a manual intended for the emergency services etc who
might encounter hybrid vehicles. I was surprised that the vehicle in
question (and I expect others) have a drain facility on the drive battery
to permit the draining of (presumably flood) water, along with procedures
to follow. While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix, I’d have
thought if the battery was flooded and anything bad was going to happen it
would have happened before anyone had a chance to drain it.

[nightjar]

On 17/02/2020 15:04, Brian Reay wrote:
....

Post by Brian Reay
I stumbled across a manual intended for the emergency services etc who
might encounter hybrid vehicles. I was surprised that the vehicle in
question (and I expect others) have a drain facility on the drive battery
to permit the draining of (presumably flood) water, along with procedures
to follow. While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix, I’d have
thought if the battery was flooded and anything bad was going to happen it
would have happened before anyone had a chance to drain it.

I saw mention online of somebody try to rescue a drowned Tesla.
Apparently, one of the cells exploded when he tried opening the battery
pack in order to dry it out. Whether that would have been the case had
he been able to drain it first is unclear.

[Brian Reay]

Post by nightjar
....

Post by Brian Reay
I stumbled across a manual intended for the emergency services etc who
might encounter hybrid vehicles. I was surprised that the vehicle in
question (and I expect others) have a drain facility on the drive battery
to permit the draining of (presumably flood) water, along with procedures
to follow. While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix, I’d have
thought if the battery was flooded and anything bad was going to happen it
would have happened before anyone had a chance to drain it.

I saw mention online of somebody try to rescue a drowned Tesla.
Apparently, one of the cells exploded when he tried opening the battery
pack in order to dry it out. Whether that would have been the case had
he been able to drain it first is unclear.

I’m not sure.

If the water can get in, the pack can’t be water tight. Perhaps the action
of opening it weakened the structure.

I can’t help thinking the battery would be scrap once flooded.

[nightjar]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by nightjar
....

Post by Brian Reay
I stumbled across a manual intended for the emergency services etc who
might encounter hybrid vehicles. I was surprised that the vehicle in
question (and I expect others) have a drain facility on the drive battery
to permit the draining of (presumably flood) water, along with procedures
to follow. While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix, I’d have
thought if the battery was flooded and anything bad was going to happen it
would have happened before anyone had a chance to drain it.

I saw mention online of somebody try to rescue a drowned Tesla.
Apparently, one of the cells exploded when he tried opening the battery
pack in order to dry it out. Whether that would have been the case had
he been able to drain it first is unclear.

I’m not sure.
If the water can get in, the pack can’t be water tight. Perhaps the action
of opening it weakened the structure.

I was wondering whether opening it allowed air to get in, which fuelled
the explosion.

Post by Brian Reay
I can’t help thinking the battery would be scrap once flooded.

IIRC about 80% of the cells were salvageable.

[Andrew]

Post by nightjar

Post by Brian Reay

Post by nightjar
....

Post by Brian Reay
I stumbled across a manual intended for the emergency services etc who
might encounter hybrid vehicles. I was surprised that the vehicle in
question (and I expect others) have a drain facility on the drive battery
to permit the draining of (presumably flood) water, along with procedures
to follow. While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix, I’d have
thought if the battery was flooded and anything bad was going to happen it
would have happened before anyone had a chance to drain it.

I saw mention online of somebody try to rescue a drowned Tesla.
Apparently, one of the cells exploded when he tried opening the battery
pack in order to dry it out. Whether that would have been the case had
he been able to drain it first is unclear.

I’m not sure.
If the water can get in, the pack can’t be water tight. Perhaps the action
of opening it weakened the structure.

I was wondering whether opening it allowed air to get in, which fuelled
the explosion.

Post by Brian Reay
I can’t help thinking the battery would be scrap once flooded.

IIRC about 80% of the cells were salvageable.

I read somewhere that Tesla re-use 2nd hand car battery packs in their
domestic battery storage system.

[D A Stocks]

Post by nightjar
....

Post by Brian Reay
I stumbled across a manual intended for the emergency services etc who
might encounter hybrid vehicles. I was surprised that the vehicle in
question (and I expect others) have a drain facility on the drive battery
to permit the draining of (presumably flood) water, along with procedures
to follow. While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix, I’d have
thought if the battery was flooded and anything bad was going to happen it
would have happened before anyone had a chance to drain it.

I saw mention online of somebody try to rescue a drowned Tesla.
Apparently, one of the cells exploded when he tried opening the battery
pack in order to dry it out. Whether that would have been the case had he
been able to drain it first is unclear.

There's a Youtube channel called Rich Rebuilds where you can see how it's
done.

--
DAS

[Andrew]

Post by nightjar
....

Post by Brian Reay
I stumbled across a manual intended for the emergency services etc who
might encounter hybrid vehicles. I was surprised that the vehicle in
question (and I expect others) have a drain facility on the drive battery
to permit the draining of (presumably flood) water, along with procedures
to follow. While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix, I’d have
thought if the battery was flooded and anything bad was going to happen it
would have happened before anyone had a chance to drain it.

I saw mention online of somebody try to rescue a drowned Tesla.
Apparently, one of the cells exploded when he tried opening the battery
pack in order to dry it out. Whether that would have been the case had
he been able to drain it first is unclear.

Toyota dealers have a full NBC kit that the technician has to wear
when working on the high voltage battery.

[Spike]

Post by Brian Reay
I stumbled across a manual intended for the emergency services etc who
might encounter hybrid vehicles. I was surprised that the vehicle in
question (and I expect others) have a drain facility on the drive battery
to permit the draining of (presumably flood) water, along with procedures
to follow. While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix

What makes you think that lithium is present as a metal?

Post by Brian Reay
I’d have
thought if the battery was flooded and anything bad was going to happen it
would have happened before anyone had a chance to drain it.

Any 'explosion' with such a battery is very likely to involve a
component other than the 'lithium'.

There'll be a wiki article somewhere that you can use to become an expert.

[Jimk]

Post by Spike

Post by Brian Reay
I stumbled across a manual intended for the emergency services etc who
might encounter hybrid vehicles. I was surprised that the vehicle in
question (and I expect others) have a drain facility on the drive battery
to permit the draining of (presumably flood) water, along with procedures
to follow. While I?m aware Lithium and water isn?t a good mix

What makes you think that lithium is present as a metal?

Post by Brian Reay
I?d have
thought if the battery was flooded and anything bad was going to happen it
would have happened before anyone had a chance to drain it.

Any 'explosion' with such a battery is very likely to involve a
component other than the 'lithium'.
There'll be a wiki article somewhere that you can use to become an expert.

;-)

[Brian Reay]

Post by Spike

Post by Brian Reay
I stumbled across a manual intended for the emergency services etc who
might encounter hybrid vehicles. I was surprised that the vehicle in
question (and I expect others) have a drain facility on the drive battery
to permit the draining of (presumably flood) water, along with procedures
to follow. While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix

What makes you think that lithium is present as a metal?

I didn't say it was. The comment was to waylay the uninformed comment re
the 'school boy' reaction of lithium and water.

Clearly it wasn't clear enough for you and others.

That aside, the Lithium Ions, present in the various chemicals depending
on the chemistry of the particular battery, can be an issue.

Still, you are free to ignore such things and treat Lithium batteries as
you please.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Spike

Post by Brian Reay
I stumbled across a manual intended for the emergency services etc who
might encounter hybrid vehicles. I was surprised that the vehicle in
question (and I expect others) have a drain facility on the drive battery
to permit the draining of (presumably flood) water, along with procedures
to follow. While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix

What makes you think that lithium is present as a metal?

I didn't say it was. The comment was to waylay the uninformed comment re
the 'school boy' reaction of lithium and water.
Clearly it wasn't clear enough for you and others.
That aside, the Lithium Ions, present in the various chemicals depending
on the chemistry of the particular battery, can be an issue.
Still, you are free to ignore such things and treat Lithium batteries as
you please.

I do and have been for nearly 20 years

Water has never been an issue in the 100 or so packs that have pased
through my hads

[Spike]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Spike

Post by Brian Reay
I stumbled across a manual intended for the emergency services etc who
might encounter hybrid vehicles. I was surprised that the vehicle in
question (and I expect others) have a drain facility on the drive battery
to permit the draining of (presumably flood) water, along with procedures
to follow. While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix

What makes you think that lithium is present as a metal?

I didn't say it was.

Actually, you did. It was in the sentence you snipped:

"While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix, I’d have
thought if the battery was flooded and anything bad was going to happen it
would have happened before anyone had a chance to drain it."

Post by Brian Reay
The comment was to waylay the uninformed comment re
the 'school boy' reaction of lithium and water.
Clearly it wasn't clear enough for you and others.

I'm not sure you understand what you write.

Post by Brian Reay
That aside, the Lithium Ions, present in the various chemicals depending
on the chemistry of the particular battery, can be an issue.
Still, you are free to ignore such things and treat Lithium batteries as
you please.

If the above represents your knowledge of EV batteries, I suggest you
don't buy a car fitted with them.

[Brian Reay]

Post by Spike

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Spike

Post by Brian Reay
I stumbled across a manual intended for the emergency services etc who
might encounter hybrid vehicles. I was surprised that the vehicle in
question (and I expect others) have a drain facility on the drive battery
to permit the draining of (presumably flood) water, along with procedures
to follow. While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix

What makes you think that lithium is present as a metal?

I didn't say it was.

"While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix, I’d have
thought if the battery was flooded and anything bad was going to happen it
would have happened before anyone had a chance to drain it."

Your inability to comprehend simple statements is getting worse.

I suggest you refrain from making yourself look stupid.

[Spike]

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Spike

Post by Brian Reay

Post by Spike

Post by Brian Reay
I stumbled across a manual intended for the emergency services etc who
might encounter hybrid vehicles. I was surprised that the vehicle in
question (and I expect others) have a drain facility on the drive battery
to permit the draining of (presumably flood) water, along with procedures
to follow. While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix

What makes you think that lithium is present as a metal?

I didn't say it was.

"While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix, I’d have
thought if the battery was flooded and anything bad was going to happen it
would have happened before anyone had a chance to drain it."

Your inability to comprehend simple statements is getting worse.
I suggest you refrain from making yourself look stupid.

Heavy night, was it? Take more water with it.

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by Brian Reay
While I’m aware Lithium and water isn’t a good mix

Lithium ion batteries do not contain elemental lithium

It's a lithium salt, and they are sealed

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

Post by tony sayer
Seeing a great number of cars in water recently, some just up to the
sills some to the roof bars.
IN this day of lots of electronics in cars what are the chances of them
working again, or are they all just insurance write off's, anyone any
idea?..

very little but they will be auctioned off by ins co's and who knows
where they will end up ...

[Theo]

Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...
very little but they will be auctioned off by ins co's and who knows
where they will end up ...

Copart.

And then bought up by a scrap dealer either as a fixer-upper or to part out.

Plenty of Water/Flood showing up here:
https://www.copart.co.uk/quickpick/newlistings/?intcmp=web_homepage_categories_newlistings_public_en

Theo

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

Post by tony sayer
Seeing a great number of cars in water recently, some just up to the
sills some to the roof bars.
IN this day of lots of electronics in cars what are the chances of them
working again, or are they all just insurance write off's, anyone any
idea?..

if you buy a dacia duster you don't have to wait for a flood ....

[Andrew]

Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...

Post by tony sayer
Seeing a great number of cars in water recently, some just up to the
sills some to the roof bars.
IN this day of lots of electronics in cars what are the chances of them
working again, or are they all just insurance write off's, anyone any
idea?..

if you buy a dacia duster you don't have to wait for a flood ....

Most owners just snigger at all the money that other people
are pissing away on their unreliable VW's, Beemers and JLRs.

[Jim GM4DHJ ...]

Post by Andrew

Post by Jim GM4DHJ ...

Post by tony sayer
Seeing a great number of cars in water recently, some just up to the
sills some to the roof bars.
IN this day of lots of electronics in cars what are the chances of them
working again, or are they all just insurance write off's, anyone any
idea?..

if you buy a dacia duster you don't have to wait for a flood ....

Most owners just snigger at all the money that other people
are pissing away on their unreliable VW's, Beemers and JLRs.

dusters leak like a sieve...because they are built chaeply...

[Jethro_uk]

Post by tony sayer
Seeing a great number of cars in water recently, some just up to the
sills some to the roof bars.
IN this day of lots of electronics in cars what are the chances of them
working again, or are they all just insurance write off's, anyone any
idea?..

I'd have thought the biggest problem are absorbent materials such as
underlay, noise insulation, carpets and seats which can never be 100%
dried out. To put right you'd need to strip the interior down to a shell,
and replace all the sodden items - not cheap. Going back to the 1990s,
plain seats were £400 a pop brand new, so that's £1,600 plus vat plus
labour immediately.

These days they're a lot more sophisticated. Also you have all the
gubbins like seatbelt pretensioners that I imagine need changing.

No idea if catalytic converters enjoy being submerged either.

[NY]

Post by Jethro_uk

Post by tony sayer
Seeing a great number of cars in water recently, some just up to the
sills some to the roof bars.
IN this day of lots of electronics in cars what are the chances of them
working again, or are they all just insurance write off's, anyone any
idea?..

I'd have thought the biggest problem are absorbent materials such as
underlay, noise insulation, carpets and seats which can never be 100%
dried out. To put right you'd need to strip the interior down to a shell,
and replace all the sodden items - not cheap. Going back to the 1990s,
plain seats were £400 a pop brand new, so that's £1,600 plus vat plus
labour immediately.
These days they're a lot more sophisticated. Also you have all the
gubbins like seatbelt pretensioners that I imagine need changing.
No idea if catalytic converters enjoy being submerged either.

And then there's the "little" problem of water entering the engine while
it's running. If anyone is driving through water and it gets into the air
inlet, the engine will quickly demonstrate how incompressible water is
compared with air. My brother-in-law drove into a large puddle across a road
at a fair speed (it was at night and the headlights didn't show the water as
looking any different from the road surface, so he was driving at an
appropriate speed for what looked like a straight road clear of hazards).
Luckily he kept control of the car - it didn't skid out of control - but
water got into the engine and knackered it. Being a diesel, with a greater
compression ratio, the damage was worse. Fortunately his insurance paid for
a new engine.

I'm not sure what exactly failed, but the engine would still turn over (but
not fire), so evidently the connecting rods, crankshaft and
cam-shaft/valvegear were all still intact. It may have knackered the
injector pump: I'm not sure how the pressure of water in a cylinder with the
piston at TDC compares with the pressure under which fuel is normally
injected into the cylinder, and whether back-flow up the injector port to
the pump would have been possible.



I can vouch for how difficult it is to get the inside of a car clean and
dry. A former car flooded to a depth of several inches when the drain holes
from the gutter at the base of the windscreen got blocked and it overflowed
into the car following torrential rain overnight. That required me to remove
the front seats, gear lever housing, carpet (top and underlay), and get the
carpet professionally cleaned (I was able to wash the underlay in the
washing machine). I discovered it just as I was about to set off on a
business trip, so apart from mopping up the excess with every towel in the
house, I couldn't do anything about it for a couple of days, by which time
the water started to pong. I got it all sorted out, and I learned a lot
about how the seats of a VW Golf are fastened to the floor and how to
unscrew the gear lever housing. That was in the days before air bags, so
there were no "bum-on-seat" detectors and also no heated seats, so no
cabling to disconnect.

[Andrew]

but water got into the engine and knackered it. Being a diesel, with a
greater compression ratio, the damage was worse. Fortunately his
insurance paid for a new engine.

This storm was very well forecast many days ago, and anyone
paying attention to the jet stream and weather over in the USA
would have guessed quite accurately that we were in for a 2013/14
type of weather event even further back.

The Met Office have been giving yellow, amber and latterly
red alerts, so anyone ignoring those warnings and then
damaging their car might find insurance cos being reluctant
to pay out, just like they try to wiggle out of accident
or illness claims to anyone on holiday abroad.

[tony sayer]

Post by Andrew

but water got into the engine and knackered it. Being a diesel, with a
greater compression ratio, the damage was worse. Fortunately his
insurance paid for a new engine.

This storm was very well forecast many days ago, and anyone
paying attention to the jet stream and weather over in the USA
would have guessed quite accurately that we were in for a 2013/14
type of weather event even further back.
The Met Office have been giving yellow, amber and latterly
red alerts, so anyone ignoring those warnings and then
damaging their car might find insurance cos being reluctant
to pay out, just like they try to wiggle out of accident
or illness claims to anyone on holiday abroad.

Indeed! But also there was that bit of vid on the BBC news showing a
street in Wales I think were a Audi was bombing down the road with water
up to and then over its bonnet makes me wonder just how it kept on f
driving maybe the air intake is just that little bit higher?

Course no ones teaches anyone how to drive in a flood anymore do they
just go as fat as you can and hope you'll make it thru!..

Unless its the Welney wash, been though here a few times quite hairy but
this blokes got the right sort of wagon!

[williamwright]

Post by tony sayer
Seeing a great number of cars in water recently, some just up to the
sills some to the roof bars.
IN this day of lots of electronics in cars what are the chances of them
working again, or are they all just insurance write off's, anyone any
idea?..

Both my daughter's cars were written off because they were at Fishlake.
My cousin who has a specialist garage says that cars should always be
written off after even a flight flood because no matter what you do you
can't get the reliability if you keep them.

Bill

[ARW]

Post by williamwright

Post by tony sayer
Seeing a great number of cars in water recently, some just up to the
sills some to the roof bars.
IN this day of lots of electronics in cars what are the chances of them
working again, or are they all just insurance write off's, anyone any
idea?..

Both my daughter's cars were written off because they were at Fishlake.
My cousin who has a specialist garage says that cars should always be
written off after even a flight flood because no matter what you do you
can't get the reliability if you keep them.

About as good as a new FIAT then:)

[The Natural Philosopher]

Post by tony sayer
Seeing a great number of cars in water recently, some just up to the
sills some to the roof bars.
IN this day of lots of electronics in cars what are the chances of them
working again, or are they all just insurance write off's, anyone any
idea?..

They are insurance write-offs on health and safety grounds if water gets
inside.
But up to the sills no problem