Left hand threads on near side wheel studs?

[d***@lineone.net]

On Saturday, 14 June 2003 15:37:39 UTC+1, R. Schneider wrote:
> I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
> on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
> normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
> in the Owner's Manual.

You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right! Have you ever noticed that bicycle pedals have opposite handed threads on opposite sides of the bike? The problem that this avoids is called "precession". If the threads were the same on both sides of the bike one pedal would unscrew itself!

Similar things can happen on motor vehicles and trailers. The precession problem is worst on "lug-centric" wheels. These are wheels which are a sloppy fit on the hub and rely on the wheel nuts to center the wheel and carry the weight.

The more modern type of wheel is "hub-centric". With this type of wheel and hub the hub spigot is a snug fit in the wheel. One minor snag is that after a little rusting has taken place removing the wheel may need a hydraulic puller! With such a good fit one can surmise that the spigot carries most of the weight. Precession does not seem to occur to any great extent on this type of wheel as the nuts are just clamping the wheel in place instead of carrying the weight.

IMHO lug-centric wheels can give a lot of trouble on the left hand side of vehicles (especially on heavily laden trailers) One good modification is to fit longer wheel studs that will accept a Nylock-nut on top of the wheel nut. Thread lock is another get-you-home method if the nuts loosen persistently. Superglue is also extremely effective! Good luck!

[The Revd]

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:58:35 -0800 (PST), ***@lineone.net
wrote:

>On Saturday, 14 June 2003 15:37:39 UTC+1, R. Schneider wrote:
>> I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
>> on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
>> normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
>> in the Owner's Manual.
>
>You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right!

They usually put a "L" on the left hand thread studs...most people
don't know what it means and just keep tightening it.

[Scott M]

The Revd wrote:
> On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 14:58:35 -0800 (PST), ***@lineone.net
> wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, 14 June 2003 15:37:39 UTC+1, R. Schneider wrote:
>>> I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
>>> on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
>>> normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
>>> in the Owner's Manual.
>> You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right!
>
> They usually put a "L" on the left hand thread studs...most people
> don't know what it means and just keep tightening it.

Wonder if 'L' stands for Learner - 'cos they're going to find a new
lesson at their cost! :-)

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

[The Peeler]

On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 15:14:22 -0800, Dumb Heini, the heavily medicated Dutch
resident Nazi troll and laughing stock of sci and scj, wrote:


>>> I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
>>> on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
>>> normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
>>> in the Owner's Manual.
>>
>>You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right!
>
> They usually put a "L" on the left hand thread studs...most people
> don't know what it means and just keep tightening it.

You better worry about the big "L" clearly visible on your stupid forehead,
loser!

--
Retarded, anal, subnormal and extremely proud of it: our resident
psychopath, The Retard (aka "The Rectum").

[The Revd]

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 12:16:20 +0100, The Peeler
<***@themoronicRevd.invalid> wrote:

>On Mon, 10 Feb 2014 15:14:22 -0800, Dumb Heini, the heavily medicated Dutch
>resident Nazi troll and laughing stock of sci and scj, wrote:
>
>
>>>> I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
>>>> on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
>>>> normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
>>>> in the Owner's Manual.
>>>
>>>You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right!
>>
>> They usually put a "L" on the left hand thread studs...most people
>> don't know what it means and just keep tightening it.
>
>I better, worry about the big, "G" clearly visible on, my stupid Grik forehead,
>I'm Grik loser!

You, better anus! You, ARE innit!

[Eiron]

On 10/02/2014 22:58, ***@lineone.net wrote:
> On Saturday, 14 June 2003 15:37:39 UTC+1, R. Schneider wrote:
>> I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
>> on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
>> normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
>> in the Owner's Manual.
>
> You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right! Have you ever noticed that bicycle pedals have opposite handed threads on opposite sides of the bike? The problem that this avoids is called "precession". If the threads were the same on both sides of the bike one pedal would unscrew itself!

Pedal cycle threads are left-handed on the left side so that both pedals
tend to unscrew themselves.

--
Eiron.

[Tim+]

Eiron <***@live.com> wrote:
> On 10/02/2014 22:58, ***@lineone.net wrote:
>> On Saturday, 14 June 2003 15:37:39 UTC+1, R. Schneider wrote:
>>> I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
>>> on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
>>> normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
>>> in the Owner's Manual.
>>
>> You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right! Have you ever noticed
>> that bicycle pedals have opposite handed threads on opposite sides of
>> the bike? The problem that this avoids is called "precession". If the
>> threads were the same on both sides of the bike one pedal would unscrew itself!
>
> Pedal cycle threads are left-handed on the left side so that both pedals
> tend to unscrew themselves.

Um no. That would make no sense at all and isn't the case (unless never
properly tightened or if the threads are damaged).

Tim

[Eiron]

On 11/02/2014 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
> Eiron <***@live.com> wrote:
>> On 10/02/2014 22:58, ***@lineone.net wrote:

>>> You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right! Have you ever noticed
>>> that bicycle pedals have opposite handed threads on opposite sides of
>>> the bike? The problem that this avoids is called "precession". If the
>>> threads were the same on both sides of the bike one pedal would unscrew itself!
>>
>> Pedal cycle threads are left-handed on the left side so that both pedals
>> tend to unscrew themselves.
>
> Um no. That would make no sense at all and isn't the case (unless never
> properly tightened or if the threads are damaged).

Check your facts before posting.
http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_p.html#pedal

--
Eiron.

[David Taylor]

On 2014-02-11, Eiron <***@live.com> wrote:
> On 11/02/2014 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
>> Eiron <***@live.com> wrote:
>>> On 10/02/2014 22:58, ***@lineone.net wrote:
>
>>>> You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right! Have you ever noticed
>>>> that bicycle pedals have opposite handed threads on opposite sides of
>>>> the bike? The problem that this avoids is called "precession". If the
>>>> threads were the same on both sides of the bike one pedal would unscrew itself!
>>>
>>> Pedal cycle threads are left-handed on the left side so that both pedals
>>> tend to unscrew themselves.
>>
>> Um no. That would make no sense at all and isn't the case (unless never
>> properly tightened or if the threads are damaged).
>
> Check your facts before posting.
> http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_p.html#pedal

The left pedal does indeed have a left-handed thread. The bit that is wrong
(and would make absolutely no sense whatsoever) is the assertion that
this makes both pedals tend to unscrew themselves. It does the opposite.

--
David Taylor

[Tim+]

David Taylor <davidt-***@yadt.co.uk> wrote:
> On 2014-02-11, Eiron <***@live.com> wrote:
>> On 11/02/2014 07:40, Tim+ wrote:
>>> Eiron <***@live.com> wrote:
>>>> On 10/02/2014 22:58, ***@lineone.net wrote:
>>
>>>>> You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right! Have you ever noticed
>>>>> that bicycle pedals have opposite handed threads on opposite sides of
>>>>> the bike? The problem that this avoids is called "precession". If the
>>>>> threads were the same on both sides of the bike one pedal would unscrew itself!
>>>>
>>>> Pedal cycle threads are left-handed on the left side so that both pedals
>>>> tend to unscrew themselves.
>>>
>>> Um no. That would make no sense at all and isn't the case (unless never
>>> properly tightened or if the threads are damaged).
>>
>> Check your facts before posting.
>> http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_p.html#pedal
>
> The left pedal does indeed have a left-handed thread. The bit that is wrong
> (and would make absolutely no sense whatsoever) is the assertion that
> this makes both pedals tend to unscrew themselves. It does the opposite.


It was the assertion that the pedals are threaded to make both sides
unscrew themselves that I was arguing with. Anyone who has undone a left
sided pedal knows about the LH thread.

Tim

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article
<1821882959413820624.931892timdownie2003-***@news.eternal-september.org>,
Tim+ <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> It was the assertion that the pedals are threaded to make both sides
> unscrew themselves that I was arguing with. Anyone who has undone a left
> sided pedal knows about the LH thread.

This was throwing me - the last bike I looked at used cotter pins. ;-)

--
*Verbs HAS to agree with their subjects *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Tim+]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article
> <1821882959413820624.931892timdownie2003-***@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Tim+ <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> It was the assertion that the pedals are threaded to make both sides
>> unscrew themselves that I was arguing with. Anyone who has undone a left
>> sided pedal knows about the LH thread.
>
> This was throwing me - the last bike I looked at used cotter pins. ;-)

Not for fixing the pedals to the cranks though! Only the crank to the
bottom bracket spindle. Pedals have been threaded into the cranks for a
very long time.

Tim

[James R]

On 11/02/2014 15:10, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article
> <1821882959413820624.931892timdownie2003-***@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Tim+ <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> It was the assertion that the pedals are threaded to make both sides
>> unscrew themselves that I was arguing with. Anyone who has undone a left
>> sided pedal knows about the LH thread.
>
> This was throwing me - the last bike I looked at used cotter pins. ;-)
>

Not to hold the pedals on it never.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <b98583a2-504b-4940-8152-***@googlegroups.com>,
<***@lineone.net> wrote:
> > I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
> > on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
> > normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
> > in the Owner's Manual.

> You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right! Have you ever noticed
> that bicycle pedals have opposite handed threads on opposite sides of
> the bike? The problem that this avoids is called "precession". If the
> threads were the same on both sides of the bike one pedal would unscrew
> itself!

> Similar things can happen on motor vehicles and trailers. The
> precession problem is worst on "lug-centric" wheels. These are wheels
> which are a sloppy fit on the hub and rely on the wheel nuts to center
> the wheel and carry the weight.

Given that just about every car ever made with nuts and studs or bolts
rather than centre lock uses only right hand threads, it can't be much of
a problem.

What is a problem with left hand threads is the average tyre shop trying
to undo them the wrong way and damaging the threads. But of course simply
putting them back on, rather than admitting to this.

If you think about it, only a fixing which is concentric to the axle is
going to be affected by the direction of rotation - not one which is
offset from that centre line.

--
*Do they ever shut up on your planet?

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Duncan Wood]

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 00:40:36 -0000, Dave Plowman (News)
<***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> In article <b98583a2-504b-4940-8152-***@googlegroups.com>,
> <***@lineone.net> wrote:
>> > I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
>> > on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
>> > normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
>> > in the Owner's Manual.
>
>> You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right! Have you ever noticed
>> that bicycle pedals have opposite handed threads on opposite sides of
>> the bike? The problem that this avoids is called "precession". If the
>> threads were the same on both sides of the bike one pedal would unscrew
>> itself!
>
>> Similar things can happen on motor vehicles and trailers. The
>> precession problem is worst on "lug-centric" wheels. These are wheels
>> which are a sloppy fit on the hub and rely on the wheel nuts to center
>> the wheel and carry the weight.
>
> Given that just about every car ever made with nuts and studs or bolts
> rather than centre lock uses only right hand threads, it can't be much of
> a problem.
>
> What is a problem with left hand threads is the average tyre shop trying
> to undo them the wrong way and damaging the threads. But of course simply
> putting them back on, rather than admitting to this.
>
> If you think about it, only a fixing which is concentric to the axle is
> going to be affected by the direction of rotation - not one which is
> offset from that centre line.
>

Umm, no that's the issue with precession, there's an animation on
wikipedia if you're having difficulty visualising it, which given it's
closely related to unintuitive gyroscopic effects would be reasonable

[The Revd]

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 00:40:36 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
<***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>In article <b98583a2-504b-4940-8152-***@googlegroups.com>,
> <***@lineone.net> wrote:
>> > I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
>> > on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
>> > normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
>> > in the Owner's Manual.
>
>> You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right! Have you ever noticed
>> that bicycle pedals have opposite handed threads on opposite sides of
>> the bike? The problem that this avoids is called "precession". If the
>> threads were the same on both sides of the bike one pedal would unscrew
>> itself!
>
>> Similar things can happen on motor vehicles and trailers. The
>> precession problem is worst on "lug-centric" wheels. These are wheels
>> which are a sloppy fit on the hub and rely on the wheel nuts to center
>> the wheel and carry the weight.
>
>Given that just about every car ever made with nuts and studs or bolts
>rather than centre lock uses only right hand threads, it can't be much of
>a problem.
>
>What is a problem with left hand threads is the average tyre shop trying
>to undo them the wrong way and damaging the threads. But of course simply
>putting them back on, rather than admitting to this.
>
>If you think about it, only a fixing which is concentric to the axle is
>going to be affected by the direction of rotation - not one which is
>offset from that centre line.

You know something Mazda doesn't???

[The Peeler]

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 06:11:23 -0800, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of
sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, FAKING his time zone again,
farted:

>>What is a problem with left hand threads is the average tyre shop trying
>>to undo them the wrong way and damaging the threads. But of course simply
>>putting them back on, rather than admitting to this.
>>
>>If you think about it, only a fixing which is concentric to the axle is
>>going to be affected by the direction of rotation - not one which is
>>offset from that centre line.
>
> You know something Mazda doesn't???

Why not, psychopath? You "know" a LOT of things that no one else ever knew!
LOL

--
Michael to "The Rectum":
"You really wear your invincible ignorance like a medal."
MID: <l6ignb$kle$***@dont-email.me>

[The Revd]

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 17:37:21 +0100, The Peeler
<***@themoronicRevd.invalid> wrote:

>On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 06:11:23 -0800, The Rectum, the resident psychopath of
>sci and scj and Usenet's famous sexual cripple, FAKING his time zone again,
>farted:
>
>>>What is a problem with left hand threads is the average tyre shop trying
>>>to undo them the wrong way and damaging the threads. But of course simply
>>>putting them back on, rather than admitting to this.
>>>
>>>If you think about it, only a fixing which is concentric to the axle is
>>>going to be affected by the direction of rotation - not one which is
>>>offset from that centre line.
>>
>> You know something Mazda doesn't???
>
>Why not, he's psychopath! I "know" a LOT, of things that no, one else ever knew!
>LOL

Do, you anus? Care, to explain? LOLK

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 00:40:36 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
<***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>If you think about it, only a fixing which is concentric to the axle is
>going to be affected by the direction of rotation - not one which is
>offset from that centre line.

That'll be why they don't bother with LH nuts on trucks, then.
Oh, wait...

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <***@4ax.com>,
Grimly Curmudgeon <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >If you think about it, only a fixing which is concentric to the axle is
> >going to be affected by the direction of rotation - not one which is
> >offset from that centre line.

> That'll be why they don't bother with LH nuts on trucks, then.
> Oh, wait...

That'll be why all cars have them too, then?

Oh, wait...

--
*Women who seek to be equal to men lack ambition.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 10:20:26 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
<***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>> That'll be why they don't bother with LH nuts on trucks, then.
>> Oh, wait...
>
>That'll be why all cars have them too, then?
>
>Oh, wait...

Much less of a downside to a car wheel coming off and generally, if
you fit LH nuts to one side of a car, there will be the numpty problem
cropping up all the time.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <***@4ax.com>,
Grimly Curmudgeon <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 10:20:26 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> >> That'll be why they don't bother with LH nuts on trucks, then.
> >> Oh, wait...
> >
> >That'll be why all cars have them too, then?
> >
> >Oh, wait...

> Much less of a downside to a car wheel coming off

Really? Isn't that a bit of a generalization? And either it is a necessary
thing or it isn't. Regardless of the type of vehicle.

> and generally, if
> you fit LH nuts to one side of a car, there will be the numpty problem
> cropping up all the time.

I can understand a centre lock wheel having a handed thread. But one
secured by studs and nuts or bolts? Complete rubbish. There is no undoing
or self tightening moment on that type of fitting.

The reason trucks still have left hand threads is likely history. For the
same reasons cars don't. Change what is the norm and an unskilled mechanic
could cause more problems than the use of them was meant to solve.

--
*Fax is stronger than fiction *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Tim+]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article <***@4ax.com>,
> Grimly Curmudgeon <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 10:20:26 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> <***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>> That'll be why they don't bother with LH nuts on trucks, then.
>>>> Oh, wait...
>>>
>>> That'll be why all cars have them too, then?
>>>
>>> Oh, wait...
>
>> Much less of a downside to a car wheel coming off
>
> Really? Isn't that a bit of a generalization? And either it is a necessary
> thing or it isn't. Regardless of the type of vehicle.
>

Yeah but, I think you're much more likely to be aware of the clonking of a
loose wheel on a car than the driver of an HGV might be to a loose wheel on
his trailer say.

>> and generally, if
>> you fit LH nuts to one side of a car, there will be the numpty problem
>> cropping up all the time.
>
> I can understand a centre lock wheel having a handed thread. But one
> secured by studs and nuts or bolts? Complete rubbish. There is no undoing
> or self tightening moment on that type of fitting.

I wouldn't be so sure. If a wheel is a little bit loose I could see how a
wheel moving around on the studs could impart rotation to the nuts

>
> The reason trucks still have left hand threads is likely history. For the
> same reasons cars don't. Change what is the norm and an unskilled mechanic
> could cause more problems than the use of them was meant to solve.

Maybe, but maybe also for the reasons Grimley gave, namely the consequences
of a lorry wheel coming off are potentially far graver (and potentially
more likely to happen if the driver can't hear loosening).

Tim

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article
<287758065416240696.335287timdownie2003-***@news.eternal-september.org>,
Tim+ <***@nospampleaseyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > I can understand a centre lock wheel having a handed thread. But one
> > secured by studs and nuts or bolts? Complete rubbish. There is no
> > undoing or self tightening moment on that type of fitting.

> I wouldn't be so sure. If a wheel is a little bit loose I could see how a
> wheel moving around on the studs could impart rotation to the nuts

Since the wheel can't turn relative to the studs, how does it loosen the
nuts? You might as well say a wheel on the other side which was loose
would tighten the nuts - and this certainly doesn't occur. Any movement
due to a loose fixing tends to loosen that fixing even more - unless it
is concentric.

> > The reason trucks still have left hand threads is likely history. For
> > the same reasons cars don't. Change what is the norm and an unskilled
> > mechanic could cause more problems than the use of them was meant to
> > solve.

> Maybe, but maybe also for the reasons Grimley gave, namely the
> consequences of a lorry wheel coming off are potentially far graver (and
> potentially more likely to happen if the driver can't hear loosening).

Doesn't seem to be adequate given they are also fitted with indicators. If
the nuts self tightened, there'd be no need, would there?

--
*Home cooking. Where many a man thinks his wife is.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Tim+]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
> In article
> <287758065416240696.335287timdownie2003-***@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Tim+ <***@nospampleaseyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> I can understand a centre lock wheel having a handed thread. But one
>>> secured by studs and nuts or bolts? Complete rubbish. There is no
>>> undoing or self tightening moment on that type of fitting.
>
>> I wouldn't be so sure. If a wheel is a little bit loose I could see how a
>> wheel moving around on the studs could impart rotation to the nuts
>
> Since the wheel can't turn relative to the studs, how does it loosen the
> nuts?


Rather than spouting crap how about trying an experiment (as I have just
done). All you need is a nut, bolt and a large washer.

If the nut isn't tight just oscillating the washer in a circular fashion on
the nut (without ever rotating it) as would happen with a slightly loose
wheel, will cause the nut to turn.

Tim

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article
<1889198032416270293.143691timdownie2003-***@news.eternal-september.org>,
Tim+ <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> > Since the wheel can't turn relative to the studs, how does it loosen
> > the nuts?


> Rather than spouting crap how about trying an experiment (as I have just
> done). All you need is a nut, bolt and a large washer.

> If the nut isn't tight just oscillating the washer in a circular fashion
> on the nut (without ever rotating it) as would happen with a slightly
> loose wheel, will cause the nut to turn.

If the nuts are loose on a wheel it's not going to make any difference
what hand they are. The argument is whether correctly tightened nuts are
more likely to come loose if not handed.

Unless you're saying they will self tighten?

Of course I'm not speaking from experience. Despite having driven perhaps
hundreds of different vehicles, I've never had a wheel come loose. Those
who have perhaps need to check such things themselves rather than leaving
it to a garage.

--
*A fool and his money can throw one hell of a party.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Graham J]

Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
> In article
> <1889198032416270293.143691timdownie2003-***@news.eternal-september.org>,
> Tim+ <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>> Since the wheel can't turn relative to the studs, how does it loosen
>>> the nuts?
>
>
>> Rather than spouting crap how about trying an experiment (as I have just
>> done). All you need is a nut, bolt and a large washer.
>
>> If the nut isn't tight just oscillating the washer in a circular fashion
>> on the nut (without ever rotating it) as would happen with a slightly
>> loose wheel, will cause the nut to turn.
>
> If the nuts are loose on a wheel it's not going to make any difference
> what hand they are. The argument is whether correctly tightened nuts are
> more likely to come loose if not handed.
>
> Unless you're saying they will self tighten?
>
> Of course I'm not speaking from experience. Despite having driven perhaps
> hundreds of different vehicles, I've never had a wheel come loose. Those
> who have perhaps need to check such things themselves rather than leaving
> it to a garage.
>
I've seen it happen once. It was in autumn 1954, I was 5 years old.
Walking to primary school along the pathway beside a road, curving
gently to the right, there was a scraping noise behind me and I turned
to see the left hand front wheel of a car rolling along the road
generally towards me. The car had stopped, scraping its suspension on
the road.

The wheel passed in front of me, crossed the path, and fell into
somebody's front garden. I noted it was one with silver spokes. The
car was I think a Singer sports, mainly white, an old style even then,
with running boards.

I thought nothing more about it until many days later, when my father
was changing a wheel on his car. I tried to lift the spare wheel
upright, and found it too heavy for me. I then realised that if that
sports car's wheel had hit me it would probably have killed me!

--
Graham J

[Peter Hill]

On 12/03/2014 08:44, Graham J wrote:
> Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>> In article
>> <1889198032416270293.143691timdownie2003-***@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>
>
> I've seen it happen once. It was in autumn 1954
>
> The wheel passed in front of me, crossed the path, and fell into
> somebody's front garden. I noted it was one with silver spokes. The
> car was I think a Singer sports, mainly white, an old style even then,
> with running boards.

But most wire spoked wheels back then were knock on with a single centre
nut. This is about 4/5 wheel nuts/bolts on a hub flange.


--
Peter Hill
replace nospam with domain host name to reply

[Graham J]

Peter Hill wrote:
> On 12/03/2014 08:44, Graham J wrote:
>> Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
>>> In article
>>> <1889198032416270293.143691timdownie2003-***@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I've seen it happen once. It was in autumn 1954
> >
>> The wheel passed in front of me, crossed the path, and fell into
>> somebody's front garden. I noted it was one with silver spokes. The
>> car was I think a Singer sports, mainly white, an old style even then,
>> with running boards.
>
> But most wire spoked wheels back then were knock on with a single centre
> nut. This is about 4/5 wheel nuts/bolts on a hub flange.
>
>
I had wondered about that, having seen similar vehicles since. But Fi
racing cars have single centre nuts, and they come off frequently!!!!

--
Graham J

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <53201e5e$0$1419$***@news.zen.co.uk>,
Graham J <***@invalid> wrote:
> > Of course I'm not speaking from experience. Despite having driven
> > perhaps hundreds of different vehicles, I've never had a wheel come
> > loose. Those who have perhaps need to check such things themselves
> > rather than leaving it to a garage.
> >
> I've seen it happen once. It was in autumn 1954, I was 5 years old.
> Walking to primary school along the pathway beside a road, curving
> gently to the right, there was a scraping noise behind me and I turned
> to see the left hand front wheel of a car rolling along the road
> generally towards me. The car had stopped, scraping its suspension on
> the road.

> The wheel passed in front of me, crossed the path, and fell into
> somebody's front garden. I noted it was one with silver spokes. The
> car was I think a Singer sports, mainly white, an old style even then,
> with running boards.

Spoked wheels were generally centre lock with a left hand thread on the
left wheel. Thanks for proving my point. ;-)

> I thought nothing more about it until many days later, when my father
> was changing a wheel on his car. I tried to lift the spare wheel
> upright, and found it too heavy for me. I then realised that if that
> sports car's wheel had hit me it would probably have killed me!

--
*All men are idiots, and I married their King.

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 00:03:16 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
<***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>Of course I'm not speaking from experience. Despite having driven perhaps
>hundreds of different vehicles, I've never had a wheel come loose.

Really, you should get out more.
It's happened to me twice, both occasions thirty years ago and I
suspected foul play. However, rural back roads, no ped, no traffic and
no real drama. At 40mph, the rear right wheel detached, the car sat
down and rumbled along on that corner (drum brakes) and the wheel
overtook me, bounced as it hit a ditch edge, somersaulted over a hedge
and landed in a field. That was on a Triumph 2000. Second one was an
Avenger - pretty much the same, but no hedge.
I'm just lucky it didn't happen in town, as especially the T2000 wheel
exhibited a surprising kinetic energy that would certainly have caused
injury.

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <***@4ax.com>,
Grimly Curmudgeon <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> >Of course I'm not speaking from experience. Despite having driven
> >perhaps hundreds of different vehicles, I've never had a wheel come
> >loose.

> Really, you should get out more.
> It's happened to me twice, both occasions thirty years ago and I
> suspected foul play. However, rural back roads, no ped, no traffic and
> no real drama. At 40mph, the rear right wheel detached, the car sat
> down and rumbled along on that corner (drum brakes) and the wheel
> overtook me, bounced as it hit a ditch edge, somersaulted over a hedge
> and landed in a field.

Right. A right hand wheel with right hand threads. Thanks for proving my
point. ;-)

> That was on a Triumph 2000. Second one was an
> Avenger - pretty much the same, but no hedge.
> I'm just lucky it didn't happen in town, as especially the T2000 wheel
> exhibited a surprising kinetic energy that would certainly have caused
> injury.

--
*I feel like I'm diagonally parked in a parallel universe*

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 10:45:26 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
<***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

>> It's happened to me twice, both occasions thirty years ago and I
>> suspected foul play. However, rural back roads, no ped, no traffic and
>> no real drama. At 40mph, the rear right wheel detached, the car sat
>> down and rumbled along on that corner (drum brakes) and the wheel
>> overtook me, bounced as it hit a ditch edge, somersaulted over a hedge
>> and landed in a field.
>
>Right. A right hand wheel with right hand threads. Thanks for proving my
>point. ;-)

Did you read that bit, where I suspected dirty deeds?

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <***@4ax.com>,
Grimly Curmudgeon <***@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 10:45:26 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

> >> It's happened to me twice, both occasions thirty years ago and I
> >> suspected foul play. However, rural back roads, no ped, no traffic and
> >> no real drama. At 40mph, the rear right wheel detached, the car sat
> >> down and rumbled along on that corner (drum brakes) and the wheel
> >> overtook me, bounced as it hit a ditch edge, somersaulted over a hedge
> >> and landed in a field.
> >
> >Right. A right hand wheel with right hand threads. Thanks for proving my
> >point. ;-)

> Did you read that bit, where I suspected dirty deeds?

Yes. Not surprising if you speak to people as you do on here. ;-)

--
*Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.*

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[rp]

On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 10:45:26 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

>> Really, you should get out more.
>> It's happened to me twice, both occasions thirty years ago and I
>> suspected foul play. However, rural back roads, no ped, no traffic and
>> no real drama. At 40mph, the rear right wheel detached, the car sat
>> down and rumbled along on that corner (drum brakes) and the wheel
>> overtook me, bounced as it hit a ditch edge, somersaulted over a hedge
>> and landed in a field.
>
>Right. A right hand wheel with right hand threads. Thanks for proving my
>point. ;-)

I've seen a wheel come off twice, both front right hand ones, both on a
motorway heading to Leicester. One was on the M69 and the other was on
the M1 northbound. From my sampling they come off if you are heading
towards Leicester :-)

They travel for miles unless stopped, I passed the M18 wheel about 3
miles after passing the car on the hard shoulder and the wheel was
still doing about 20 mph. The M1 one was scary, it came bouncing
towards me, although it was possibly me catching up with it, but it was
bouncing. Luckily after the last bounce I could move left otherwise it
would have come through my windscreen. In this case the car with a
missing wheel was on the hard shoulder about a mile further on.

--
Faster, cheaper, quieter than HS2
and built in 5 years;
UKUltraspeed <http://www.500kmh.com/>

[Dave Plowman (News)]

In article <***@ouse.infohit.me.uk>,
rp <***@infohit.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 10:45:26 +0000 (GMT), Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

> >> Really, you should get out more.
> >> It's happened to me twice, both occasions thirty years ago and I
> >> suspected foul play. However, rural back roads, no ped, no traffic and
> >> no real drama. At 40mph, the rear right wheel detached, the car sat
> >> down and rumbled along on that corner (drum brakes) and the wheel
> >> overtook me, bounced as it hit a ditch edge, somersaulted over a hedge
> >> and landed in a field.
> >
> >Right. A right hand wheel with right hand threads. Thanks for proving my
> >point. ;-)

> I've seen a wheel come off twice, both front right hand ones, both on a
> motorway heading to Leicester. One was on the M69 and the other was on
> the M1 northbound. From my sampling they come off if you are heading
> towards Leicester :-)

> They travel for miles unless stopped, I passed the M18 wheel about 3
> miles after passing the car on the hard shoulder and the wheel was
> still doing about 20 mph. The M1 one was scary, it came bouncing
> towards me, although it was possibly me catching up with it, but it was
> bouncing. Luckily after the last bounce I could move left otherwise it
> would have come through my windscreen. In this case the car with a
> missing wheel was on the hard shoulder about a mile further on.

Yes - I've seen it too. Terrifying. Hence my checking my own wheel nuts
after any work has been carried out on my car. Which is very rare - I do
most of it myself. When having new tyres I try to watch the wheels being
re-fitted. But check them anyway.

--
*When everything's coming your way, you're in the wrong lane *

Dave Plowman ***@davenoise.co.uk London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

[Dave Baker]

"Dave Plowman (News)" <***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote in message
news:***@davenoise.co.uk...
> Yes - I've seen it too. Terrifying. Hence my checking my own wheel nuts
> after any work has been carried out on my car. Which is very rare - I do
> most of it myself. When having new tyres I try to watch the wheels being
> re-fitted. But check them anyway.

10 or 15 years ago a friend took his VW Passat to a tuning emporium whose
name I won't mention to have some engine mods carried out and the clutch
swapped for an uprated unit. On the way back down the M4 a steering
vibration was getting worse and worse until he finally pulled over on the
hard shoulder to have a look. They'd forgotten to tighten the nearside front
wheel nuts after refitting the gearbox - just put them back finger tight and
then presumably someone got distracted and never checked further. By the
time he stopped there was only one left and that was half way down its
thread. He got home by pinching one nut from each of the other three wheels
but had probably only been seconds away from a fairly nasty accident.

It also eventually became apparent when the car wouldn't start from cold
they'd trapped part of the wiring loom between the engine and box which had
destroyed the cold start part of the ecu fueling system and possibly other
bits. The engine never did run right again despite a variety of attempted
repairs.
--
Dave Baker

[Adrian]

On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 09:23:36 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

>>Of course I'm not speaking from experience. Despite having driven
>>perhaps hundreds of different vehicles, I've never had a wheel come
>>loose.

> Really, you should get out more.
> It's happened to me twice, both occasions thirty years ago and I
> suspected foul play.

So it didn't just "come loose". You believe somebody loosened it.

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 09:40:06 +0000 (UTC), Adrian
<***@gmail.com> wrote:

>>>Of course I'm not speaking from experience. Despite having driven
>>>perhaps hundreds of different vehicles, I've never had a wheel come
>>>loose.
>
>> Really, you should get out more.
>> It's happened to me twice, both occasions thirty years ago and I
>> suspected foul play.
>
>So it didn't just "come loose". You believe somebody loosened it.

And so?
Just because some cunt loosened mine DOES NOT MEAN it doesn't happen
on its own. FOR FUCK'S SAKE, LADDIE ARE YOU THICK?

[Adrian]

On Wed, 12 Mar 2014 21:35:52 +0000, Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:

>>>>Of course I'm not speaking from experience. Despite having driven
>>>>perhaps hundreds of different vehicles, I've never had a wheel come
>>>>loose.

>>> Really, you should get out more.
>>> It's happened to me twice, both occasions thirty years ago and I
>>> suspected foul play.

>>So it didn't just "come loose". You believe somebody loosened it.

> And so?
> Just because some cunt loosened mine DOES NOT MEAN it doesn't happen on
> its own.

And so it's totally irrelevant to Dave's statement, and proves absolutely
nothing in the context.

Since you've never seen one just happen, either, Dave "getting out more"
won't necessarily help. Clearly, you also need to "get out more".

> FOR FUCK'S SAKE, LADDIE ARE YOU THICK?

<gently steers Grimly away from the mirror>

[Peter Hill]

On 11/03/2014 14:29, Tim+ wrote:
> "Dave Plowman (News)" <***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>> In article <***@4ax.com>,
>> Grimly Curmudgeon <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 04 Mar 2014 10:20:26 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
>>> <***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>>>> That'll be why they don't bother with LH nuts on trucks, then.
>>>>> Oh, wait...
>>>>
>>>> That'll be why all cars have them too, then?
>>>>
>>>> Oh, wait...
>>
>>> Much less of a downside to a car wheel coming off
>>
>> Really? Isn't that a bit of a generalization? And either it is a necessary
>> thing or it isn't. Regardless of the type of vehicle.
>>
>
> Yeah but, I think you're much more likely to be aware of the clonking of a
> loose wheel on a car than the driver of an HGV might be to a loose wheel on
> his trailer say.
>
>>> and generally, if
>>> you fit LH nuts to one side of a car, there will be the numpty problem
>>> cropping up all the time.
>>
>> I can understand a centre lock wheel having a handed thread. But one
>> secured by studs and nuts or bolts? Complete rubbish. There is no undoing
>> or self tightening moment on that type of fitting.
>
> I wouldn't be so sure. If a wheel is a little bit loose I could see how a
> wheel moving around on the studs could impart rotation to the nuts
>
>>
>> The reason trucks still have left hand threads is likely history. For the
>> same reasons cars don't. Change what is the norm and an unskilled mechanic
>> could cause more problems than the use of them was meant to solve.
>
> Maybe, but maybe also for the reasons Grimley gave, namely the consequences
> of a lorry wheel coming off are potentially far graver (and potentially
> more likely to happen if the driver can't hear loosening).

Nuts and bolts on flange joints can unwind if there are out balance
loads. Loads that overcome the friction in the flange joint to the hub.
Page 15 on.
http://gmcws.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/jim-rowe-fastener-presentation.pdf

Yes it would have to be so bad you would think that the owner would do
something about it but ...

My mates wife had driven 1000's of miles in her car before they used it
for a night out. He instantly knew from sound and vibe during braking he
was going to be replacing a cracked disc and pads that weekend. "Oh it's
been doing that for some time". He learnt he had to test drive her car a
bit more often.


--
Peter Hill
replace nospam with domain host name to reply

[Dave Baker]

"Grimly Curmudgeon" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:***@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 00:40:36 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
> <***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>If you think about it, only a fixing which is concentric to the axle is
>>going to be affected by the direction of rotation - not one which is
>>offset from that centre line.
>
> That'll be why they don't bother with LH nuts on trucks, then.
> Oh, wait...

Time for a bit of maths.

Take an average car wheel nut. 12mm thread, 19mm socket size. Weight approx
35g or 1/13th of a lb. Centre of mass at a radius of approx 8 mm. Tightening
torque circa 70 ft lbs. Loosening torque is usually higher than tightening
torque anyway but we'll ignore that.

That equates to a force of about 70 lbs x 12 x 25.4 / 8 = 2667 lbs if
applied to where the centre of mass is or approx 2667 x 13 = 34671 times the
mass of the nut. So it would require a wheel G force of a similar amount to
undo the nut even if it were central to the wheel axis and a lot more given
that it's offset from that centre.

So we're looking at forces thousands of times greater than the wheels can
possibly accelerate or decelerate at to undo any type of fixing attached to
them. It's therefore utterly inconsequential whether the fixings are l/h or
r/h thread on any particular side of the vehicle.
--
Dave Baker

[Peter Hill]

On 12/03/2014 10:18, Dave Baker wrote:
>
> "Grimly Curmudgeon" <***@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:***@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 11 Feb 2014 00:40:36 +0000 (GMT), "Dave Plowman (News)"
>> <***@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> If you think about it, only a fixing which is concentric to the axle is
>>> going to be affected by the direction of rotation - not one which is
>>> offset from that centre line.
>>
>> That'll be why they don't bother with LH nuts on trucks, then.
>> Oh, wait...
>
> Time for a bit of maths.
>
> Take an average car wheel nut. 12mm thread, 19mm socket size. Weight
> approx 35g or 1/13th of a lb. Centre of mass at a radius of approx 8 mm.
> Tightening torque circa 70 ft lbs. Loosening torque is usually higher
> than tightening torque anyway but we'll ignore that.
>
> That equates to a force of about 70 lbs x 12 x 25.4 / 8 = 2667 lbs if
> applied to where the centre of mass is or approx 2667 x 13 = 34671 times
> the mass of the nut. So it would require a wheel G force of a similar
> amount to undo the nut even if it were central to the wheel axis and a
> lot more given that it's offset from that centre.
>
> So we're looking at forces thousands of times greater than the wheels
> can possibly accelerate or decelerate at to undo any type of fixing
> attached to them. It's therefore utterly inconsequential whether the
> fixings are l/h or r/h thread on any particular side of the vehicle.

Yeah is doesn't matter if flange is bolted LH or RH but.

It's is not force (mass x Gees) but jerk, jounce or an even higher order
term that slackens them off.

Jerk is 3rd differential, force is 2nd. Jerk is not in school applied
maths or physics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerk_%28physics%29
Jounce is 4th this isn't even in degree courses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jounce
and even higher terms crackle, pop, lock and drop may be implicated in
the step loading of impact with a kerb, pothole or the like (though
cushioned by the tyre).
http://wearcam.org/absement/Derivatives_of_displacement.htm
Then you are into Fourier decomposition to produce a square wave from a
collection of increasing order sine waves.

Then there is the bolting up. Only 15% of the applied torque produces
clamping. Get it wrong and it will come lose.

Then there is the quality of the friction joint between hub flange and
wheel centre. Was it clean? Trapped debris and rust can and will move.

You may think it's nothing but if a wheel nut is over tight (some fast
fit cunt with a rattle gun?) every time the brake disc / drum that is
trapped in the joint gets hot it expands. That expansion is OK if the
elastic limit of the stud/bolt shank isn't exceeded but once exceeded
the shank goes plastic and on cooling the nut clamping reduces.

The iron disc/drum can corrode, changing the clamping.
Wear can take place in the flange joint.
Fretting can take place in the flange joint.
High temp of bolts from braking can result in creep - every 0.0001mm is
a small relaxation in the clamping load that can make it more
susceptible to other mechanisms.
It probably will have fallen off before it gets to galling or this will
take place during the final few turns while it's still just knocking around.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=gWg-rchM700C&pg=PA711&lpg=PA711&dq=flange+galling+fretting+wear&source=bl&ots=xHLarHTCmo&sig=CCm0DKqAbl-MFI6bZX_Siw1oQ1o&hl=en&sa=X&ei=p7kgU8rjDYb27AaRx4Bo&ved=0CDoQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=flange%20galling%20fretting%20wear&f=false

Just to add another complication there are hub centric and nut/bolt
centric attachments. The hub centric has a spigot on the hub and socket
in wheel so the bolts/studs+nuts don't locate the wheel (some don't have
a taper but a tophat washer that spigots into the wheel), just clamp it.
Nut/bolt centric the nut/bolt taper locates the wheel.

--
Peter Hill
replace nospam with domain host name to reply

[Scott M]

***@lineone.net wrote:

> On Saturday, 14 June 2003 15:37:39 UTC+1, R. Schneider wrote:

>> I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
>> on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
>> normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
>> in the Owner's Manual.
>
> You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right!

But have probably stopped doing so in the intervening 10.5 years...

--
Scott

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?

[critcher]

On 11/02/2014 09:09, Scott M wrote:
> ***@lineone.net wrote:
>
>> On Saturday, 14 June 2003 15:37:39 UTC+1, R. Schneider wrote:
>
>>> I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
>>> on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
>>> normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
>>> in the Owner's Manual.
>>
>> You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right!
>
> But have probably stopped doing so in the intervening 10.5 years...
>
critcher said...............
I thought all large vans and hgvs' had left hand threads on the nearside
front steering wheels, and possibly the other nearside wheels.

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

[Tim+]

<***@lineone.net> wrote:
> On Saturday, 14 June 2003 15:37:39 UTC+1, R. Schneider wrote:
>> I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
>> on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
>> normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
>> in the Owner's Manual.
>
> You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right! Have you ever noticed
> that bicycle pedals have opposite handed threads on opposite sides of the
> bike? The problem that this avoids is called "precession". If the
> threads were the same on both sides of the bike one pedal would unscrew itself!
>
> Similar things can happen on motor vehicles and trailers. The precession
> problem is worst on "lug-centric" wheels. These are wheels which are a
> sloppy fit on the hub and rely on the wheel nuts to center the wheel and carry the weight.
>
> The more modern type of wheel is "hub-centric". With this type of wheel
> and hub the hub spigot is a snug fit in the wheel. One minor snag is
> that after a little rusting has taken place removing the wheel may need a
> hydraulic puller! With such a good fit one can surmise that the spigot
> carries most of the weight. Precession does not seem to occur to any
> great extent on this type of wheel as the nuts are just clamping the
> wheel in place instead of carrying the weight.
>
> IMHO lug-centric wheels can give a lot of trouble on the left hand side
> of vehicles (especially on heavily laden trailers) One good modification
> is to fit longer wheel studs that will accept a Nylock-nut on top of the
> wheel nut. Thread lock is another get-you-home method if the nuts loosen
> persistently. Superglue is also extremely effective! Good luck!

Has anyone else noticed that the people who respond to these ancient
messages never participate in any discussion and have no previous Usenet
history? (If anyone can find any exceptions to these observations I'm happy
to be corrected). It's gotta be some sort of college exercise.

Tim

[Mrcheerful]

On 11/02/2014 21:03, Tim+ wrote:
> <***@lineone.net> wrote:
>> On Saturday, 14 June 2003 15:37:39 UTC+1, R. Schneider wrote:
>>> I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
>>> on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
>>> normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
>>> in the Owner's Manual.
>>
>> You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right! Have you ever noticed
>> that bicycle pedals have opposite handed threads on opposite sides of the
>> bike? The problem that this avoids is called "precession". If the
>> threads were the same on both sides of the bike one pedal would unscrew itself!
>>
>> Similar things can happen on motor vehicles and trailers. The precession
>> problem is worst on "lug-centric" wheels. These are wheels which are a
>> sloppy fit on the hub and rely on the wheel nuts to center the wheel and carry the weight.
>>
>> The more modern type of wheel is "hub-centric". With this type of wheel
>> and hub the hub spigot is a snug fit in the wheel. One minor snag is
>> that after a little rusting has taken place removing the wheel may need a
>> hydraulic puller! With such a good fit one can surmise that the spigot
>> carries most of the weight. Precession does not seem to occur to any
>> great extent on this type of wheel as the nuts are just clamping the
>> wheel in place instead of carrying the weight.
>>
>> IMHO lug-centric wheels can give a lot of trouble on the left hand side
>> of vehicles (especially on heavily laden trailers) One good modification
>> is to fit longer wheel studs that will accept a Nylock-nut on top of the
>> wheel nut. Thread lock is another get-you-home method if the nuts loosen
>> persistently. Superglue is also extremely effective! Good luck!
>
> Has anyone else noticed that the people who respond to these ancient
> messages never participate in any discussion and have no previous Usenet
> history? (If anyone can find any exceptions to these observations I'm happy
> to be corrected). It's gotta be some sort of college exercise.
>
> Tim
>

david benyon is a retired engineer living in Cornwall. on usenet for
quite a while. Quite why these ancient threads resurface is odd I
agree, I try to look at the date before answering now.

[Tim+]

Mrcheerful <***@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> On 11/02/2014 21:03, Tim+ wrote:
>> <***@lineone.net> wrote:
>>> On Saturday, 14 June 2003 15:37:39 UTC+1, R. Schneider wrote:
>>>> I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
>>>> on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
>>>> normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
>>>> in the Owner's Manual.
>>>
>>> You are so lucky! Mazda are doing things right! Have you ever noticed
>>> that bicycle pedals have opposite handed threads on opposite sides of the
>>> bike? The problem that this avoids is called "precession". If the
>>> threads were the same on both sides of the bike one pedal would unscrew itself!
>>>
>>> Similar things can happen on motor vehicles and trailers. The precession
>>> problem is worst on "lug-centric" wheels. These are wheels which are a
>>> sloppy fit on the hub and rely on the wheel nuts to center the wheel
>>> and carry the weight.
>>>
>>> The more modern type of wheel is "hub-centric". With this type of wheel
>>> and hub the hub spigot is a snug fit in the wheel. One minor snag is
>>> that after a little rusting has taken place removing the wheel may need a
>>> hydraulic puller! With such a good fit one can surmise that the spigot
>>> carries most of the weight. Precession does not seem to occur to any
>>> great extent on this type of wheel as the nuts are just clamping the
>>> wheel in place instead of carrying the weight.
>>>
>>> IMHO lug-centric wheels can give a lot of trouble on the left hand side
>>> of vehicles (especially on heavily laden trailers) One good modification
>>> is to fit longer wheel studs that will accept a Nylock-nut on top of the
>>> wheel nut. Thread lock is another get-you-home method if the nuts loosen
>>> persistently. Superglue is also extremely effective! Good luck!
>>
>> Has anyone else noticed that the people who respond to these ancient
>> messages never participate in any discussion and have no previous Usenet
>> history? (If anyone can find any exceptions to these observations I'm happy
>> to be corrected). It's gotta be some sort of college exercise.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>
> david benyon is a retired engineer living in Cornwall. on usenet for
> quite a while. Quite why these ancient threads resurface is odd I agree,
> I try to look at the date before answering now.

Okay, I suppose it's partly a reflection on how crap the search facility is
on groups.google these days. I suppose I did search on just the email
address and not the name. I shall search more carefully in future.

Tim

[Colin Gilbert]

On Saturday, June 14, 2003 at 3:26:13 PM UTC+1, R. Schneider wrote:
> I've just come across a case of a Mazda van with all the wheel studs
> on the near side having left-hand threads. All the offside studs are
> normal thread. How unusual is this? BTW there is no mention of this
> in the Owner's Manual.
OK, on a 19 year old post, this is a very long shot, but do you still have that owners manual?
I have just bought a 1991 Mazda van and struggling to find one!
Many thanks.