Discussion:
Fuel economy - hi-cube style vans
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AstraVanMan
2004-05-28 23:57:29 UTC
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Having recently bought a Seat Inca 1.9 SDI van, I was expecting the fuel
economy to be better than I'm experiencing. Took it back to Berkshire from
Bradford, and done various trips in it (mainly motorway, sitting at
70-80mph), and I've only averaged 49mpg. Checked the oil and it's a little
low, and I'll be doing an oil change (and air filter + fuel filter) over the
weekend, so this should ensure that things are running reasonably optimally.
Thing is, I was hoping to average around 55mpg in it. Now I know that's no
massive difference, and the shape of the van is hardly the most aerodynamic
shape, but can I expect better economy at lower speeds?

The reason I bought the van is because the work I do is 90% city traffic,
rarely going much above 30-40mph except on the motorway on the way in and
out. A few questions:

Am I right in thinking that for lower speed driving (i.e. 40mph max) the
detrimental effect the shape of the van will have on fuel economy will be
negligible?

The gearing is fairly high for a diesel, probably because it's normally
aspirated, and just not very powerful. It's doing 3000rpm in top gear (5th)
on the motorway - am I right in assuming that the economy around town
(providing there's not too much heavy traffic) should be a reasonable amount
better than sitting at 70-80 on the motorway? 3000rpm certainly doesn't
feel very economical.

Anyway, time will tell - people's comments appreciated.

Cheers,

Peter
Tim (Remove NOSPAM.
2004-05-29 09:36:30 UTC
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Post by AstraVanMan
Having recently bought a Seat Inca 1.9 SDI van, I was expecting the fuel
economy to be better than I'm experiencing. Took it back to Berkshire from
Bradford, and done various trips in it (mainly motorway, sitting at
70-80mph), and I've only averaged 49mpg. Checked the oil and it's a little
low, and I'll be doing an oil change (and air filter + fuel filter) over the
weekend, so this should ensure that things are running reasonably optimally.
Thing is, I was hoping to average around 55mpg in it. Now I know that's no
massive difference, and the shape of the van is hardly the most aerodynamic
shape, but can I expect better economy at lower speeds?
The SDI never was fantastic at high mpg- the low blow 75 TDi is far better
due to the better cylinder filling from the low pressure turbo. That said,
I'd consider 49mpg pretty good at a motorway cruise considering the small
engine, and biggish body it has to propel.

Tim..
AstraVanMan
2004-05-29 10:02:09 UTC
Permalink
Post by Tim (Remove NOSPAM.
The SDI never was fantastic at high mpg- the low blow 75 TDi is far better
due to the better cylinder filling from the low pressure turbo. That said,
I'd consider 49mpg pretty good at a motorway cruise considering the small
engine, and biggish body it has to propel.
Do you reckon I'm right in thinking that the lack of decent aerodynamics
will have much less of an effect around town than on the motorway,
especially given that it's screaming along at 3000rpm when doing 70mph? I
know it's got a big body, but I don't think it weighs all that much compared
to the car equivalent, I think it's more the un-aerodynamic shape that lets
it down?

Also, do you reckon I'm likely to get much better town economy than motorway
economy due to the fact that the revs are fairly high on the motorway?

Peter
Tim (Remove NOSPAM.
2004-05-29 12:21:53 UTC
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Post by AstraVanMan
Post by Tim (Remove NOSPAM.
The SDI never was fantastic at high mpg- the low blow 75 TDi is far better
due to the better cylinder filling from the low pressure turbo. That said,
I'd consider 49mpg pretty good at a motorway cruise considering the small
engine, and biggish body it has to propel.
Do you reckon I'm right in thinking that the lack of decent aerodynamics
will have much less of an effect around town than on the motorway,
especially given that it's screaming along at 3000rpm when doing 70mph? I
know it's got a big body, but I don't think it weighs all that much compared
to the car equivalent, I think it's more the un-aerodynamic shape that lets
it down?
Also, do you reckon I'm likely to get much better town economy than motorway
economy due to the fact that the revs are fairly high on the motorway?
Probably not. with 64bhp you're likely demanding pretty much full power if
you drive around town briskly. Stopping and starting uses alot more fuel
than crusing, even with the revs pretty high.

If you reduced your speed to say 60mph on the motorway I think you'd see a
big improvement on mpg.

Tim..
CampinGazz
2004-05-29 12:53:51 UTC
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" Tim (Remove NOSPAM." <***@NOSPAMbtinternet.com> wrote in message news:c99v90$al2$***@sparta.btinternet.com...
<snips>
Post by Tim (Remove NOSPAM.
If you reduced your speed to say 60mph on the motorway I think you'd see a
big improvement on mpg.
it can be a lot better than you think when you slow down,

i have a motorhome based on an R reg Iveco turbodaily, it's got a big body
on it (7 meters long, 2.15 meters wide, and 3 meters tall, it's also a
coachbuilt, with a luton type section, not much of an overhang over the cab
windscreen, but enough to affect the wind resistance even more,

this engine is a 2.8 litre turbo charged direct injection jobbie, just
fitted an intercooler too, prolly about 120 bhp there, old technology engine
tho, not an electronic component in sight (handy when the alternator wasnt
connected up once and the battery died, bump started her (handy being direct
injection, they start the second the engine turns) and drove home with no
battery.. no lights either mind, but you cnat do that in a modern diesel :)

Anyway, not sure of exact fuel consumption figures, but when i was drining
at 70 to 80 mph everywhere in her, i could just get 240 miles from a tank of
fuel (70 litre tank, when i fill up i usually pu in about 64 litres, so
we're not totaly emptying the tank)

For the last 2 weeks i slowed down to 55 on 'normal' roads, and do no more
than 60 mph on dual caridgways and motorways,

last tank of fuel we got 367 miles before we needed to fill up, and it took
62 litres, so i could have got a few more miles out of her,
i've just done 260 miles on 40 quids worth of diesel yesterday, towing a
trailer as well, it usually takes just over 50 quid to fill this vans tank
up, so by slowing down 10 mph in most cases, i'm saving a tenner on every
trip at least, and getting further before needing fo find a fuel station.

My engine only has about 5,000 miles on it now, was totaly re-manufactured
last year when number 4 exhaust valve made a bid for freedome.. whilest i
was doing 70 mph, it didn't get far.. the turbo caught it after it had
mangled the piston and liner,
but my fuel economy will only get better as the engine gets run in, gotta
put at least 20k on her beofre i'll get a stable fuel economy figure mind.
AstraVanMan
2004-05-29 13:54:37 UTC
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Post by Tim (Remove NOSPAM.
Post by AstraVanMan
Also, do you reckon I'm likely to get much better town economy than motorway
economy due to the fact that the revs are fairly high on the motorway?
Probably not. with 64bhp you're likely demanding pretty much full power if
you drive around town briskly.
That's exactly the thing - I've got absolutely no need to drive around town
briskly. It makes bugger all difference in London, which is why I bought
the SDI - because I thought it'd be as good if not slightly better around
town than a TDI engine. Plus they're actually a bit more driveable at lower
speeds - there isn't the complete lack of anything at all below 2000rpm that
you get with a TDI. I'm not just on about turbo lag, but there is a bit
more torque right from the word go with a n/a diesel that you don't get with
a blown one.
Post by Tim (Remove NOSPAM.
Stopping and starting uses alot more fuel
than crusing, even with the revs pretty high.
True, but I'm going with the fact that the majority of the 'cruising' work
will be 30-40mph instead of 70, and the stop-start aspects will be kept to a
minimum through careful route planning, and keeping the revs nice and low
(acceleration isn't important) should minimise consumption for the
stop-start-lots-of-gearchanges bits.
Post by Tim (Remove NOSPAM.
If you reduced your speed to say 60mph on the motorway I think you'd see a
big improvement on mpg.
Yep, that's definitely what I intend to do on the way in and out of London.
Working as a courier out of Slough, there's only 7 or 8 miles of motorway
before the 60 limit sets in at Heathrow, so the difference it'll make will
be practically nothing anyway.

I'll see how it goes anyway. I'm just gutted that no companies are willing
to let me use the Maestro for work. As soon as you mention "F reg" they
just say "that's way too old", and I can see their point as far as company
image etc goes, but the 2 litre diesel lump in the Maestro is more
economical than the 1.9 SDI in the Inca, it definitely feels more torquey
and more powerful, and it shakes the whole van like only an old Land Rover
diesel can :-) The SDI certainly feels very weedy in comparison.

Still, I've seen an immaculate Y reg Berlingo HDI on Autotrader with 100k on
the clock and a f/s/h (every 6k from new) for £3k+VAT and I'm tempted, but
I'll stick with this for the time being.

Peter
dojj
2004-05-29 18:20:31 UTC
Permalink
as long as you don't buy a high mileage kangoo...............they are just
pants at high mileages
--
*shakes fist*

poster in disguise
Post by AstraVanMan
Post by Tim (Remove NOSPAM.
Post by AstraVanMan
Also, do you reckon I'm likely to get much better town economy than
motorway
Post by Tim (Remove NOSPAM.
Post by AstraVanMan
economy due to the fact that the revs are fairly high on the motorway?
Probably not. with 64bhp you're likely demanding pretty much full power if
you drive around town briskly.
That's exactly the thing - I've got absolutely no need to drive around town
briskly. It makes bugger all difference in London, which is why I bought
the SDI - because I thought it'd be as good if not slightly better around
town than a TDI engine. Plus they're actually a bit more driveable at lower
speeds - there isn't the complete lack of anything at all below 2000rpm that
you get with a TDI. I'm not just on about turbo lag, but there is a bit
more torque right from the word go with a n/a diesel that you don't get with
a blown one.
Post by Tim (Remove NOSPAM.
Stopping and starting uses alot more fuel
than crusing, even with the revs pretty high.
True, but I'm going with the fact that the majority of the 'cruising' work
will be 30-40mph instead of 70, and the stop-start aspects will be kept to a
minimum through careful route planning, and keeping the revs nice and low
(acceleration isn't important) should minimise consumption for the
stop-start-lots-of-gearchanges bits.
Post by Tim (Remove NOSPAM.
If you reduced your speed to say 60mph on the motorway I think you'd see a
big improvement on mpg.
Yep, that's definitely what I intend to do on the way in and out of London.
Working as a courier out of Slough, there's only 7 or 8 miles of motorway
before the 60 limit sets in at Heathrow, so the difference it'll make will
be practically nothing anyway.
I'll see how it goes anyway. I'm just gutted that no companies are willing
to let me use the Maestro for work. As soon as you mention "F reg" they
just say "that's way too old", and I can see their point as far as company
image etc goes, but the 2 litre diesel lump in the Maestro is more
economical than the 1.9 SDI in the Inca, it definitely feels more torquey
and more powerful, and it shakes the whole van like only an old Land Rover
diesel can :-) The SDI certainly feels very weedy in comparison.
Still, I've seen an immaculate Y reg Berlingo HDI on Autotrader with 100k on
the clock and a f/s/h (every 6k from new) for £3k+VAT and I'm tempted, but
I'll stick with this for the time being.
Peter
AstraVanMan
2004-05-29 20:16:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by dojj
Post by AstraVanMan
Still, I've seen an immaculate Y reg Berlingo HDI on Autotrader with 100k on
the clock and a f/s/h (every 6k from new) for £3k+VAT and I'm tempted, but
I'll stick with this for the time being.
as long as you don't buy a high mileage kangoo...............they are just
pants at high mileages
Why? What goes wrong on them?

Peter
dojj
2004-05-31 08:30:40 UTC
Permalink
--
*shakes fist*

poster in disguise
Post by AstraVanMan
Post by dojj
Post by AstraVanMan
Still, I've seen an immaculate Y reg Berlingo HDI on Autotrader with
100k on
Post by dojj
Post by AstraVanMan
the clock and a f/s/h (every 6k from new) for £3k+VAT and I'm tempted,
but
Post by dojj
Post by AstraVanMan
I'll stick with this for the time being.
as long as you don't buy a high mileage kangoo...............they are just
pants at high mileages
Why? What goes wrong on them?
everything and anyting
our's are hitting the 130k mark now and things like glow plugs, belts, oil
elaks from the top end, exhausts rasping, brakes that are just pants,
rattles form the dash, airbag lights apprearing on nearly all 17 vehicles,
fuel gauges not readding full, speedo's start to wear out (incorrect speed
overreading buy as much as 5 mph in a 30 etc), knackered remote central
locking, imobiliser problems (key related again), top front suspension
bushes moving about lots and lots, etc
and this is just off the otp of my head
renault servicing also requires an advanced course is working out exaclty
what the fuck the dealer is on about :)
Post by AstraVanMan
Peter
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